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 Post subject: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:21 am 
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Am i reading this correctly??

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08266/914155-63.stm

I am off to work, curious to read u guys comments later :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:46 am 
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Very interesting development. Glad to see it happen but questions surround it in my mind.

Where did this info come from?
Who started new talks?
Can this be acceptable to MLB? to other teams? to the playters?
How can Alvarez avoid not sitting out a year?
How can he not go back to the draft?
What are the rules about the draft?

Again, I am pleased to hear that he's agreed, but don't understand the possibility of it with all that's been said about the legality of everything. Is this just a way out of baseball's mess and forget about the rules?

Who caved is not so important to me. Looks like both sides got something. I guess we're back on track and should feel good today.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:49 am 
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Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:30 am 
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Argentum wrote:
Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


I concur. Get this deal done, signed and get PA to an instructional league ASAP. Where does he start next season? My money is on Altoona.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:09 am 
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Funny.

Give him more money and the problem goes away.

I smell a rat and we all know what his name is.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:07 am 
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Actually, If I am reading this correctly, it may or may not be more money, depending on when he actually starts his major league clock. It also stretches out the payments over more years, so it frees up more payroll.

My concern is going to come when the Pirates don't call him up as quickly, holding him back a little longer to keep that clock from starting, and how are they going to use all this payroll money they are saving, especially if Jack and/or Freddie goes, which seems likely (at least one of them, anyway).


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:20 am 
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I'm glad he is signed. I'll chose to ignore the contractual details and just hope he turns out to be a great player.

My money is on him starting the year in A ball.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:50 am 
Argentum wrote:
Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


I'm with you, Argentum. I don't like the major league contract. If that's the way it has to be, I sure hope he's given a chance to make the big league club next year. I hate the idea of the clock ticking on his major league deal while he plays in Altoona.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:55 am 
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bradf wrote:
My concern is going to come when the Pirates don't call him up as quickly, holding him back a little longer to keep that clock from starting, and how are they going to use all this payroll money they are saving, especially if Jack and/or Freddie goes, which seems likely (at least one of them, anyway).



His clock has started. He's on the 40-man as of signing day. At the end of it all, I think there will be little differance in his monies.

That said, I can't wait to read the "Pirates folded" threads.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:20 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


I'm with you, Argentum. I don't like the major league contract. If that's the way it has to be, I sure hope he's given a chance to make the big league club next year. I hate the idea of the clock ticking on his major league deal while he plays in Altoona.


Elmer, his clock doesn't start ticking until he is added to the 25-man. This just means he has to be placed on the 40 man, and if he goes to the minors, he has to use an option. If it were a minor league deal, the Pirates would have a number of years to put him in the minors without using an option. Since players get 3 options, that means even with a big league deal we can keep him in the minors for 3 years without hurting his big league clock. Because Alvarez seems to be close to the majors, the difference between a major league deal and a minor league deal should be minimal.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:54 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
That said, I can't wait to read the "Pirates folded" threads.


My guess is that MLB folded. I don't think they wanted the arbitration ruling to come down, so Bud called Frank and said, "get a deal done".

BM


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:02 pm 
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Don't like the major league contract. Glad it's over though.


I'm with you, Argentum. I don't like the major league contract. If that's the way it has to be, I sure hope he's given a chance to make the big league club next year. I hate the idea of the clock ticking on his major league deal while he plays in Altoona.


Elmer, his clock doesn't start ticking until he is added to the 25-man. This just means he has to be placed on the 40 man, and if he goes to the minors, he has to use an option. If it were a minor league deal, the Pirates would have a number of years to put him in the minors without using an option. Since players get 3 options, that means even with a big league deal we can keep him in the minors for 3 years without hurting his big league clock. Because Alvarez seems to be close to the majors, the difference between a major league deal and a minor league deal should be minimal.


You are correct. My bad ... I read an erroneous description of the deal on the Internet before I got the real story. Thanks for clarifying.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:05 pm 
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I'm still confused though by the whole arbitration thing. If the case is between the players union and the commissioner's office, how does this change things? If the union was upset that Pedro agreed to a contract 30 minutes after the deadline, how will agreeing to a contract nearly 2 months after the deadline satisfy them? If in fact the grievance is dropped, I think that is some very compelling evidence that this whole mess was being driven by Boras, presumably in hopes that he could set a precedent for negotiating a contract after the deadline.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:08 pm 
BBF wrote:
I'm still confused though by the whole arbitration thing. If the case is between the players union and the commissioner's office, how does this change things? If the union was upset that Pedro agreed to a contract 30 minutes after the deadline, how will agreeing to a contract nearly 2 months after the deadline satisfy them? If in fact the grievance is dropped, I think that is some very compelling evidence that this whole mess was being driven by Boras, presumably in hopes that he could set a precedent for negotiating a contract after the deadline.


Great point, BBF. It seems like it would be a huge violation.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:35 pm 
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BBF wrote:
I'm still confused though by the whole arbitration thing. If the case is between the players union and the commissioner's office, how does this change things? If the union was upset that Pedro agreed to a contract 30 minutes after the deadline, how will agreeing to a contract nearly 2 months after the deadline satisfy them? If in fact the grievance is dropped, I think that is some very compelling evidence that this whole mess was being driven by Boras, presumably in hopes that he could set a precedent for negotiating a contract after the deadline.


BBF -
Your confusion is well-founded.
Here is my guess. The union is going to need evidence that an agreement was reached after midnight to have any hope of winning the grievance. They won't get that evidence from the Pirates. And, now, it is not likely that they will get that evidence from either Boras or Alvarez. Boras: "Uhh, my mistake. There was an agreement before midnight. We've just tweaked some of the details." Alvarez: "Yeah, what he said."

Looks like there was some comprimise on both sides in order to avoid the uncertainties of litigation. I see that every day. However, it also appears that Boras may have discovered a method by which he was able to extract some extra cash for his client after the deadline passed. Hint that the agreement was not reached in accordance with the collective bargaining agreement, risk that the deal is blown up and force everybody back to the table for more negotiations.

To me, it is clear that the $375,000 was not a make it or break it for Alvarez. This seems more about Boras saving face and getting Alvarez more than Posey.

In any event, Boras "wins" by saving face, getting more money and getting both Alvarez and the KC player on the field. The Pirates "win" by signing Alvarez to a contract for slightly more money but paying out over longer periods of time. Thus, to a certain extent, this is the proverbial "win/win." Oddly, the person that may have "lost" the most is Alvarez who lost a chance to get some playing time over $375,000.

I hope he gets on the field ASAP and gets to the Bigs quickly. Perhaps there will still be a market for Andy LaRoche at that time. I'm still not convinced that he's going to amount to much.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:37 pm 
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Because winning the arb will screw Boras royally? He will be stuck trying to get a union rep to agree to a two minute contract extension for 4 clients at 11:59PM, or risk losing all contracts?

Conversely, he will be forced to actually negotiate beforehand, and with less leverage to push the deadline.

IMO, He only wanted to make more money than the other agent.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:19 pm 
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My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?


I just hope Alavarez doesn't cry and moan when he gets booed the 1st time he makes an error on a routine play or doesn't hustle down to first on a grounder...I sure hope that few extra $$$'s was worth having a whole stadium riding his ass...

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:31 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?

His fate depends on whether the Players Association decides to continue to pursue its grievance.

nad69dan wrote:
I just hope Alavarez doesn't cry and moan when he gets booed the 1st time he makes an error on a routine play or doesn't hustle down to first on a grounder...I sure hope that few extra $$$'s was worth having a whole stadium riding his ass...

Right, because your average Pirate fan has that long of a memory....

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:34 pm 
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Willton wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?

His fate depends on whether the Players Association decides to continue to pursue its grievance.

nad69dan wrote:
I just hope Alavarez doesn't cry and moan when he gets booed the 1st time he makes an error on a routine play or doesn't hustle down to first on a grounder...I sure hope that few extra $$$'s was worth having a whole stadium riding his ass...

Right, because your average Pirate fan has that long of a memory....



I'm sure all 1700 people in the park will be very gracious.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates, Alvarez agree to revised contract
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:47 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
My question now is what happens with the kid from KC who got sat down until this matter was decided?

His fate depends on whether the Players Association decides to continue to pursue its grievance.

nad69dan wrote:
I just hope Alavarez doesn't cry and moan when he gets booed the 1st time he makes an error on a routine play or doesn't hustle down to first on a grounder...I sure hope that few extra $$$'s was worth having a whole stadium riding his ass...

Right, because your average Pirate fan has that long of a memory....



I'm sure all 1700 people in the park will be very gracious.


As long as one of them aren't you, then why should you care?

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