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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:

I'm the idiot? Yeah, I'm the one using unequal sample sizes to support a thin argument. Over 300 less innings in your second half stat plit. Even with the smaller sample size, the difference in ERA is thin.
.


No, but it certainly doesn't show that the pitching has gotten worse, does it? And if I recall, your point was that this team has gotten worse through the year, ESPECIALLY the pitching, which implies that you think the pitching performance was drastically different in the second half of the year.

The points I have seen you attempt to make thus far in support of that is that ERA is not THAT much better (hmm, but still not worse, right??) and that it would be better if Bay and Nady were here (riiiiigght...I just checked and Maholm's FBVWJBAXNITL- that would be Fastball velocity with Jason Bay and Xavier Nady in the Lineupp- is 2mph faster than his normal fastball!!!!!!).

In other words, I gather that you are saying that the pitching is worse because Jeremy says so. Which seems par for the course for your arguments.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:46 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:

I'm the idiot? Yeah, I'm the one using unequal sample sizes to support a thin argument. Over 300 less innings in your second half stat plit. Even with the smaller sample size, the difference in ERA is thin.
.


No, but it certainly doesn't show that the pitching has gotten worse, does it? And if I recall, your point was that this team has gotten worse through the year, ESPECIALLY the pitching, which implies that you think the pitching performance was drastically different in the second half of the year.

The points I have seen you attempt to make thus far in support of that is that ERA is not THAT much better (hmm, but still not worse, right??) and that it would be better if Bay and Nady were here (riiiiigght...I just checked and Maholm's FBVWJBAXNITL- that would be Fastball velocity with Jason Bay and Xavier Nady in the Lineupp- is 2mph faster than his normal fastball!!!!!!).

In other words, I gather that you are saying that the pitching is worse because Jeremy says so. Which seems par for the course for your arguments.



You're right BBF.....this is a World Series team in waiting. Next year's Tampa Bay Rays for sure!

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:55 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:



You're right BBF.....this is a World Series team in waiting. Next year's Tampa Bay Rays for sure!



Ok, its taking every ounce of restraint I have to refrain from responding to your posts with the use of the word DUMBASS, but here goes.

I don't recall saying that we were going to be world series champs. I recall saying that you have nothing to support your assertion that the players got worse under Russell. Certainly if you had reason to believe that you would have provided evidence. It really isn't hard...unless of course they actually didn't get worse as you asserted. So instead of providing evidence, the logical reply is to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a homer, apologist, and thinks everything is fine. Carry on the rest of this argument with yourself then, since you obviously know how the rest of us think.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:56 pm 
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Look, everyone here is entitled to thier opinion....even the ones who have to keep telling us his opinion over and over and over again. But you did not voice an opinion...you stated the pitching was MUCH WORSE in the 2nd half as if that were gospel. The statistics used show that statement to be false. You didn't say the pitching was just as bad, or nearly as bad...you said much worse. So give us the statistical evidence that validates your argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:59 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:



You're right BBF.....this is a World Series team in waiting. Next year's Tampa Bay Rays for sure!



Ok, its taking every ounce of restraint I have to refrain from responding to your posts with the use of the word DUMBASS, but here goes.

I don't recall saying that we were going to be world series champs. I recall saying that you have nothing to support your assertion that the players got worse under Russell. Certainly if you had reason to believe that you would have provided evidence. It really isn't hard...unless of course they actually didn't get worse as you asserted. So instead of providing evidence, the logical reply is to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a homer, apologist, and thinks everything is fine. Carry on the rest of this argument with yourself then, since you obviously know how the rest of us think.



I guess the W/L record doesn't count.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
I'm the idiot? Yeah, I'm the one using unequal sample sizes to support a thin argument. Over 300 less innings in your second half stat plit. Even with the smaller sample size, the difference in ERA is thin.

It still plainly refutes your claim that the pitching staff got worse. You're wrong.

Jeremy wrote:
The fact is the Pirates take the field knowing they need to outscore the opposing team because their starting rotation is the second worst in Major League Baseball. And if Bedard hadn't gotten hurt in Seattle, they'd be the worst.

Um, that's what every team has to do. A baseball team always must outscore its opponent in order to win. That's how games are won: you score more runs than the other guy. Why is this exclusive to the Pirates?

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:25 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
I guess the W/L record doesn't count.

Someone needs to teach Jeremy the difference between allowing runs and scoring runs.

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:27 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
I'm the idiot? Yeah, I'm the one using unequal sample sizes to support a thin argument. Over 300 less innings in your second half stat plit. Even with the smaller sample size, the difference in ERA is thin.

It still plainly refutes your claim that the pitching staff got worse. You're wrong.

Jeremy wrote:
The fact is the Pirates take the field knowing they need to outscore the opposing team because their starting rotation is the second worst in Major League Baseball. And if Bedard hadn't gotten hurt in Seattle, they'd be the worst.

Um, that's what every team has to do. A baseball team always must outscore its opponent in order to win. That's how games are won: you score more runs than the other guy. Why is this exclusive to the Pirates?



Fair enough on the second point. But at least other teams usually know they don't need to score 7-8 runs to win.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:47 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
(especially the pitching) actually got worse as the season went along.


Really? You think the pitching got worse as the season went along? Really?

Then this conversation is over.



Oh no BBF, giving up double digit runs every night is a huge improvement!

First half ERA: 5.23

Second half ERA: 5.03

You could at least try to get your facts right.

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Explain away that, Jeremy.



Explain what away? A 5.03 ERA is still pathetic and a sure fire way to lose 100 games. Especially when your "genius" GM traded away the two best offensive players on the roster.

You didn't say that the pitching was pathetic. You said that it got worse. You are wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:53 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Willton wrote:
Explain away that, Jeremy.



Explain what away? A 5.03 ERA is still pathetic and a sure fire way to lose 100 games. Especially when your "genius" GM traded away the two best offensive players on the roster.

You didn't say that the pitching was pathetic. You said that it got worse. You are wrong.



LOL


Hey I'm wrong. The pitching got slightly LESS PATHETIC in the second half.


I wonder if any of you see how sad all of this really is.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Hey I'm wrong. The pitching got slightly LESS PATHETIC in the second half.


I wonder if any of you see how sad all of this really is.

I see precisely how sad it is. It is so sad that you can't even manage to show that the Pirates aren't very good without lying about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:00 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Hey I'm wrong. The pitching got slightly LESS PATHETIC in the second half.


I wonder if any of you see how sad all of this really is.

I see precisely how sad it is. It is so sad that you can't even manage to show that the Pirates aren't very good without lying about it.



Aren't very good? Isn't that like saying the Hindenburg was just a little explosion?


The Pirates suck on a level that they haven't sucked before. This might be the worst team I've ever seen them field. Hell, the pitching improved and it still sucks. There's no offense to speak of outside of a center fielder having a dream season. The manager is too busy doing crosswords to back up his veteran players.


But none of this is suppossed to matter to fans because the Pirates are doing "the right things" in the FO. I wonder how dumb ownership thinks we really are.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Hey I'm wrong. The pitching got slightly LESS PATHETIC in the second half.


I wonder if any of you see how sad all of this really is.

I see precisely how sad it is. It is so sad that you can't even manage to show that the Pirates aren't very good without lying about it.



Aren't very good? Isn't that like saying the Hindenburg was just a little explosion?


The Pirates suck on a level that they haven't sucked before. This might be the worst team I've ever seen them field.

Pirates 2008 win %: .417
Pirates 2006 win %: .414
Pirates 2005 win %: .414
Pirates 2001 win %: .383
Pirates 1995 win %: .403

You're either a brand new Pirate fan or you have a short memory.

Quote:
Hell, the pitching improved and it still sucks. There's no offense to speak of outside of a center fielder having a dream season.[/quote
Ryan Doumit has the fifth highest OPS among ML catchers.

Quote:
But none of this is suppossed to matter to fans because the Pirates are doing "the right things" in the FO. I wonder how dumb ownership thinks we really are.

I won't speak for other fans. I think that they're moving in the right direction, and it's the first time I've thought that since the late 1980's. As for how dumb do they think the fans are, I don't know that. I do know that some fans spend a lot of time watching or listening to games and posting at Pirate websites even though they think that ownership is either incompetent or unwilling to try to win. How dumb is that?

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:45 pm 
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You're right.....loyalty is stupid. Maybe I should become a Yankees fan. At least then I'd know my owner gave s hit about the fans instead of having these robber barons we have now.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:47 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
You're right.....loyalty is stupid. Maybe I should become a Yankees fan. At least then I'd know my owner gave s hit about the fans instead of having these robber barons we have now.

I second that motion, as then we would not have to endure reading the blatantly false claims, flagrant insults, and really poorly written posts you make here on an hourly basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:28 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
You're right.....loyalty is stupid. Maybe I should become a Yankees fan. At least then I'd know my owner gave s hit about the fans instead of having these robber barons we have now.


And they are in the Postseason? I think its the owners fault for not getting Santana when they should have early this year, they let the Mets steal him. Man, the Yankees owner sucks!!

At least that's how the argument is stated here in Pittsburgh, with Nutting.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:35 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
You're right.....loyalty is stupid. Maybe I should become a Yankees fan. At least then I'd know my owner gave s hit about the fans instead of having these robber barons we have now.


Loyalty, damn right I have loyalty, thats the problem with fans in this day of age, too fickle for my taste. Don't have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out with the teams they love. Nobody on this board is "happy" with the 16 straight losing seasons. Your charges toward us diehard fans is ludicrous and shows your ignorance towards this organization and to the game of baseball.

You want heartache, try being a Cubs fan, ask them when the last time they won a WS(1908), or maybe the last time they've even been to a WS(1945). Those fans are still loyal.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 10:46 am 
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What the heck do you people want? Did you want the Pirates to magically go to the WS because we got a new manager? I think Russell did a great job in managing a team that had gaping holes in starting pitching, and a complete offensive turnover after the deadline.

Thinks you may have overlooked:
1. Doumit played pretty much the entire season at Catcher and improved his skills markedly (point - Russell)
2. McLouth emerges as the star of the team, he just needed to be given the chance (point - Russell)
3. The clubhouse maintained a professional workmanlike attitude for the entire season according to Dejan (point - Russell)
4. Russell has a history of making younger players better, why should that change now?

Russell did a nice job for his first year, remember, he will develop to.


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 Post subject: Re: Skipper John Russel
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:27 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
What the heck do you people want? Did you want the Pirates to magically go to the WS because we got a new manager? I think Russell did a great job in managing a team that had gaping holes in starting pitching, and a complete offensive turnover after the deadline.

Thinks you may have overlooked:
1. Doumit played pretty much the entire season at Catcher and improved his skills markedly (point - Russell)
2. McLouth emerges as the star of the team, he just needed to be given the chance (point - Russell)
3. The clubhouse maintained a professional workmanlike attitude for the entire season according to Dejan (point - Russell)
4. Russell has a history of making younger players better, why should that change now?

Russell did a nice job for his first year, remember, he will develop to.


Doug M disagrees.


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