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 Post subject: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 10:55 am 
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Sorry I could not the provide the link(gotta pay for it)but I saw this on another site. I think you can assume that not only will the Pirates not have the #1 pick, a pissed off arbitrator might even take away the Bucs' compensation pick! The hearing will drag on ..maybe into next year.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=8078

Love to hear from you lawyers on this

***********************************

As one source surmised, the union is going "all-out" on this issue, and will attempt to prove that not only did MLB break the rules of the current collective bargaining agreement, but that teams like the Pirates joined with MLB in a conspiracy to break the rules with malice and forethought, and thus deserve a significantly stronger penalty than they've received in the past. This could include what is becoming an ever-growing range of possibilities, including free agency for the players involved, a public apology and admittance of guilt from Selig himself (one source joked that, "Selig would probably rather make Alvarez a free agent than do that"), as well as the possibility of Pittsburgh forfeiting any compensation pick they might expect for losing Alvarez should the arbitrator rule that he goes back into the draft next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:13 pm 
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Here's what this soon-to-be lawyer has to say: wholesale copying of an article from Baseball Prospectus is copyright infringement. Stop doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:20 pm 
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It is copyright infringement, but don't stop doing it. I like "insider" knowledge for free.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:48 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Here's what this soon-to-be lawyer has to say: wholesale copying of an article from Baseball Prospectus is copyright infringement. Stop doing it.


Have I made a dime doing this? Sue me Perry Mason to be

Willton wrote:
You have no evidence to prove your point. Bald assertions get you nowhere.

So does that article have no evididence to get them nowhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Does it really matter anymore?

It seems, at this point, like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:36 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Sorry I could not the provide the link(gotta pay for it)but I saw this on another site. I think you can assume that not only will the Pirates not have the #1 pick, a pissed off arbitrator might even take away the Bucs' compensation pick! The hearing will drag on ..maybe into next year.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=8078

Love to hear from you lawyers on this

***********************************

As one source surmised, the union is going "all-out" on this issue, and will attempt to prove that not only did MLB break the rules of the current collective bargaining agreement, but that teams like the Pirates joined with MLB in a conspiracy to break the rules with malice and forethought, and thus deserve a significantly stronger penalty than they've received in the past. This could include what is becoming an ever-growing range of possibilities, including free agency for the players involved, a public apology and admittance of guilt from Selig himself (one source joked that, "Selig would probably rather make Alvarez a free agent than do that"), as well as the possibility of Pittsburgh forfeiting any compensation pick they might expect for losing Alvarez should the arbitrator rule that he goes back into the draft next year.


Where did the rest of the article go? The link was only 2 paragraphs and there was alot of information that you deleted. What is the matter...was the rest of the article not to your liking?

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:38 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
Sorry I could not the provide the link(gotta pay for it)but I saw this on another site. I think you can assume that not only will the Pirates not have the #1 pick, a pissed off arbitrator might even take away the Bucs' compensation pick! The hearing will drag on ..maybe into next year.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/artic ... cleid=8078

Love to hear from you lawyers on this

***********************************

As one source surmised, the union is going "all-out" on this issue, and will attempt to prove that not only did MLB break the rules of the current collective bargaining agreement, but that teams like the Pirates joined with MLB in a conspiracy to break the rules with malice and forethought, and thus deserve a significantly stronger penalty than they've received in the past. This could include what is becoming an ever-growing range of possibilities, including free agency for the players involved, a public apology and admittance of guilt from Selig himself (one source joked that, "Selig would probably rather make Alvarez a free agent than do that"), as well as the possibility of Pittsburgh forfeiting any compensation pick they might expect for losing Alvarez should the arbitrator rule that he goes back into the draft next year.


Where did the rest of the article go? The link was only 2 paragraphs and there was alot of information that you deleted. What is the matter...was the rest of the article not to your liking? If any of you want to read the entire article I'll PM you with it since the thought police did not think it was worthy of being read

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:45 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Where did the rest of the article go? The link was only 2 paragraphs and there was alot of information that you deleted. What is the matter...was the rest of the article not to your liking?

The mods deleted the article because they want to comply with the law. Whether the mods liked the article is beside the point.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Willton wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
Where did the rest of the article go? The link was only 2 paragraphs and there was alot of information that you deleted. What is the matter...was the rest of the article not to your liking?

The mods deleted the article because they want to comply with the law. Whether the mods liked the article is beside the point.


Dont make me laugh. Anyway if anyone wants the entire article by Kevin Goldstein from Baseball prospectus, let me know. Long story short, it does not look like Pedro will be a Pirate and they may lose more than that

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:25 pm 
What a mess.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:45 pm 
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My thoughts on the possible outcomes has been previously posted and I see no reason to alter what is a straight-forward contract formation/contract interpretation analysis.

I will add this. Synonyms for the word "surmise" are "guess," "speculation" and "conjecture." The article identifies that a "source" is surmising (in other words guessing). The source apparently also said that the range of results "could" include awarding free agency.

BH . . . you conclude in your last post that "it does not look like Pedro will be a Pirate and they may lose more than that." I really don't see any reasonable or rational basis for reaching that conclusion.

All Goldstein has done in this article is typed the words of some anonymous source who is guessing as to what the union may be arguing and the results that they could be seeking. Whether that has any legal basis is a completely different story.

I'm also somewhat reminded of the Demi Moore character in A Few Good Men who raises an objection, is overruled by the trial judge and then states that she "vehemently objects." Whether the union is going all out and asks for Selig to stand on his head and gargle peanut butter doesn't make the result any more likely.

An enforceable agreement was either reached or not. If not, Alvarez is not a Pirate. If so, he is a Pirate. Under any rational contract analysis, those are the 2 potential results. Any other result, no matter how the arbitrator gets there, really has no legal basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 5:55 pm 
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If there's a reason and a way for BH to throw the Pirates under the bus and ignore the past 11 months and focus on the previous 15 years, he will...He gets his jollies from it...

It probably gets him so excited, he pee's his pants in excitement!!!

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:07 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
If there's a reason and a way for BH to throw the Pirates under the bus and ignore the past 11 months and focus on the previous 15 years, he will...He gets his jollies from it...

It probably gets him so excited, he pee's his pants in excitement!!!



Let's ignore the last 11 months and focus on the last 4 weeks. This club has regressed to the point where they're fighting with Seattle to be the worst team in MLB. Players are giving little to no effort and the manager is a spineless coward.

BH isn't right to dismiss the progress the Pirates have made over the last year. But we're just as wrong to assume that the progress made in the last year means we're seeing the team turn a corner. The current roster is filled with a lot of guys who need their walking papers and the manager needs to be shown the door yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
If there's a reason and a way for BH to throw the Pirates under the bus and ignore the past 11 months and focus on the previous 15 years, he will...He gets his jollies from it...

It probably gets him so excited, he pee's his pants in excitement!!!



Let's ignore the last 11 months and focus on the last 4 weeks. This club has regressed to the point where they're fighting with Seattle to be the worst team in MLB. Players are giving little to no effort and the manager is a spineless coward.

BH isn't right to dismiss the progress the Pirates have made over the last year. But we're just as wrong to assume that the progress made in the last year means we're seeing the team turn a corner. The current roster is filled with a lot of guys who need their walking papers and the manager needs to be shown the door yesterday.


And what exactly should he get mad about? He's got a bunch of rookies and unproven players out on the field...You want him to pull a Lloyd and grab 1st base?

Jim Tracy certainly wasn't the most vocal manager either...he just sat there with his snuff in his cheek, and his team was exciting he had Nady and Bay...You want him back?
Russell knew what he was getting into when he took the job, it wasn't worth it going out to argue calls when you're letting guys battle for their major league lives next season this late in the season...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:48 pm 
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Lawyers, need your thoughts....so I can trash them. Like a tree falling in the woods, if a d#%k head writes a post and no one reads it, is it still a post?


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:33 am 
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bradf wrote:
Lawyers, need your thoughts....so I can trash them. Like a tree falling in the woods, if a d#%k head writes a post and no one reads it, is it still a post?


Classic! :D :D


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:49 am 
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bradf wrote:
... if a d#%k head writes a post and no one reads it, is it still a post?


Brad, don't be so hard on yourself...I still read your posts :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Oh, wait, you weren't referring to yourself???!!!! Why, whomever could you have been speaking of???!!! :roll: :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:05 am 
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nad69dan wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
If there's a reason and a way for BH to throw the Pirates under the bus and ignore the past 11 months and focus on the previous 15 years, he will...He gets his jollies from it...

It probably gets him so excited, he pee's his pants in excitement!!!



Let's ignore the last 11 months and focus on the last 4 weeks. This club has regressed to the point where they're fighting with Seattle to be the worst team in MLB. Players are giving little to no effort and the manager is a spineless coward.

BH isn't right to dismiss the progress the Pirates have made over the last year. But we're just as wrong to assume that the progress made in the last year means we're seeing the team turn a corner. The current roster is filled with a lot of guys who need their walking papers and the manager needs to be shown the door yesterday.


And what exactly should he get mad about? He's got a bunch of rookies and unproven players out on the field...You want him to pull a Lloyd and grab 1st base?

Jim Tracy certainly wasn't the most vocal manager either...he just sat there with his snuff in his cheek, and his team was exciting he had Nady and Bay...You want him back?
Russell knew what he was getting into when he took the job, it wasn't worth it going out to argue calls when you're letting guys battle for their major league lives next season this late in the season...



Menky isn't fighting for his ML life.

Russell has no balls and needs to go find a job where he fits in. Maybe trash collector or the DMV, because he damn sure isn't a major league manager.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:40 am 
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All Russell does by going out, arguing and getting run, is fan the flame of the underlying problems of this team. Nothing would be accomplished. He shows more stones by keeping his cool, sucking it up and moving on to the next day. However, I am sure that there have been behind the scenes chats with some players and I hope ML's worst base runner, Nyjer Morgan, was called on the carpet a couple of times. Managers and coaches see who does what or what not and it will effect the future of the players and their possible continuing service with the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedro-gate...Lawyers need your thoughts
PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 12:21 pm 
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Az-- all you say is true and I agree most of the time.

There are times when even though it won't change a call, that both players and fans need to see some emotion diplayed by their coach in defending them on the field. I think Russell needs to do a little more for all of our spirits. We don't want to have an imagine (true or untrue)of accepting losing.

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