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 Post subject: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Remember I did not say this

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I think we have a great core of players right now," he said. "We have the pieces to win now. It's just a matter of getting the passion, the accountability, the attention to detail. That's what works. My role and the staff's role is going to be huge and we're going to be diligent, but I like what we have."

Russell pointed to young starters such as Tom Gorzelanny, Paul Maholm, Ian Snell and Zach Duke, good speed and defense, and proven hitters such as Jason Bay and Freddy Sanchez as a core to build around.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball ... ager_N.htm

Remember this next Spring when you hear or read similar statements

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:39 am 
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I'd like to see the archieves of this board back around when that article was written last November. I'm sure there were a lot of these eternal optimists that make up this board that were argreeing with the article and agreeing that we could've won this season.

Now all the slaves argue that there was never really any way we could win this season so anyone who questions why the Pirates suck so bad in August and into September is an idiot for thinking we should be better than the absolute going-through the motions-til its time to hit the golf course nosedive we're on now.

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:37 am 
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omgardd wrote:
I'd like to see the archieves of this board back around when that article was written last November. I'm sure there were a lot of these eternal optimists that make up this board that were argreeing with the article and agreeing that we could've won this season.

Now all the slaves argue that there was never really any way we could win this season so anyone who questions why the Pirates suck so bad in August and into September is an idiot for thinking we should be better than the absolute going-through the motions-til its time to hit the golf course nosedive we're on now.


I don't believe there was one person on this board who thought we could win this year, aside from ZM, the eternal optimist. We all realized that Dave Littlefield was a fool, an idiot, an incompetent asshole, a jagoff, someone who had no business running a baseball team, etc. You seem to be the one proclaiming that we could have won now had we not made the trades, not us. I guess that makes us the eternal pessimists, Sunshine.


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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:27 am 
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I am just curious what all the Omgardd's and Bullishes will say when things will turn around...

When NH is right, When mr Nutting is right, When Pedro is There, When Tabata is There, When
Andy, Russ, Brandon, Jeff, Steve & Nyer are adjusted (Mr Doumit hadn't had the best 1st years)
When The McCutche(o)n's are There

It's easy to be critical, negative and complain... that's the first human reaction when things aren't going the way
they like.. they get negative, negativm turns into a downwards chronic negative thought and it creates
bullishhitters and consorts...

http://www.personalityresearch.org/cogsocial.html

BUT hey.. i will not be critical if things turn around and will accept their apologises....


cheerio from HOLLAND... the POSITIVE country

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:46 am 
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I'll be there cheering on the team as well. It should only take another 5 years.
How many more 5 year rebuilding plans does it take to show your fans just a little respect?
Do you think the chronic negativity relates to the chronic 16 years of losing?
You sir have the patience of a saint.

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:21 pm 
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BBF wrote:
omgardd wrote:
I'd like to see the archieves of this board back around when that article was written last November. I'm sure there were a lot of these eternal optimists that make up this board that were argreeing with the article and agreeing that we could've won this season.

Now all the slaves argue that there was never really any way we could win this season so anyone who questions why the Pirates suck so bad in August and into September is an idiot for thinking we should be better than the absolute going-through the motions-til its time to hit the golf course nosedive we're on now.


I don't believe there was one person on this board who thought we could win this year, aside from ZM, the eternal optimist. We all realized that Dave Littlefield was a fool, an idiot, an incompetent asshole, a jagoff, someone who had no business running a baseball team, etc. You seem to be the one proclaiming that we could have won now had we not made the trades, not us. I guess that makes us the eternal pessimists, Sunshine.


I believed we could compete because in baseball anything can happen, if Gorzo and Snell had improved on last year, it might have been interesting. But NH gave them a shot, they didn't get it done, on came the trades. Its baseball.

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I'll be there cheering on the team as well. It should only take another 5 years.
How many more 5 year rebuilding plans does it take to show your fans just a little respect?
Do you think the chronic negativity relates to the chronic 16 years of losing?
You sir have the patience of a saint.


So what are you going to do? Keep complaining for 5 more years, if so let me know so I can go buy a 5 year supply of Rolaids.


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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:58 pm 
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I thought the team would have a shot...if and only if all the pieces came together...

1. Adam LaRoche not stinking it up in April and May
2. Bay comes back to form
3. Nady hits .300 with power and is healthy everyday
4. Nate is the CFer not Morgan
5. Freddy hits .300 and shoulder is healthy
6. Jack puts up a similar 2007 season
7. Paulino can bounce back to rookie year form
8. Snell and Gorzo continue to anchor the rotation
9. Duke comes back healthy, and not get shelled
10. Maholm continues to improve
11. Capps can handle being a closer
12. Bullpen depth?
13. Bautista can improve on his 2007
14. No injuries to pitching staff or Van Benschoten and Bullington are your fill in options
15. Matt Morris doesnt totally blow

And lets see 1 didn't happen neither did 5, 6, 7, 8, 13, 14, 14, and half of 9 (still not sure of Duke)...too many eggs in a basket

This team would have had to play everyday without getting hurt and all producing similar numbers or better than the year before...it was possible but not probable

I held out a slim hope, but knew it wasn't going to happen

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 10:05 pm 
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omgardd wrote:
I'd like to see the archieves of this board back around when that article was written last November. I'm sure there were a lot of these eternal optimists that make up this board that were argreeing with the article and agreeing that we could've won this season.

You'd be wrong. I don't think that anyone predicted anything more than 82 wins, and that was hope talking.

Quote:
Now all the slaves argue that there was never really any way we could win this season so anyone who questions why the Pirates suck so bad in August and into September is an idiot for thinking we should be better than the absolute going-through the motions-til its time to hit the golf course nosedive we're on now.

Feel free to point out a few of the many examples you have seen of the Pirates dogging it.

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:37 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
So what are you going to do? Keep complaining for 5 more years, if so let me know so I can go buy a 5 year supply of Rolaids.


I'd like to know how you manage or expect others to sit through 16 years of imcompetence and not complain? I mean, its not the end of the world, but it would be nice to have a winning baseball team sometime in our lifetime.

My patience clearly isn't as good as most on this board.

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:46 am 
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omgardd wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
So what are you going to do? Keep complaining for 5 more years, if so let me know so I can go buy a 5 year supply of Rolaids.


I'd like to know how you manage or expect others to sit through 16 years of imcompetence and not complain? I mean, its not the end of the world, but it would be nice to have a winning baseball team sometime in our lifetime.

My patience clearly isn't as good as most on this board.


Its not about the patience, nor about the 16 years. I tell you the truth omgardd, I would be one mean cuss if Littlefield was still in command, and he drafted another Moskos this year. Harping on a GM that has been here a little over a year trying to clean up a terrible mess of a ballclub is unfair. Things have to get worse before they get better. This year has been a trial period for players, coaches, and management alike. This offseason will be full of changes, people who don't believe in the philosophy, out, and people willing to buy into the new PBC management style, in. Players who don't have a future with the Pirates, out, well, you get the point.

My optimism has nothing to do with blind faith in the PBC, it has everything to do with evidence linking the Pirates to actual good decision making, no matter how unpopular it is with the fanbase.


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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:55 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
...people who don't believe in the philosophy, out, and people willing to buy into the new PBC management style, in. Players who don't have a future with the Pirates, out, well, you get the point.

My optimism has nothing to do with blind faith in the PBC, it has everything to do with evidence linking the Pirates to actual good decision making, no matter how unpopular it is with the fanbase.


I guess according to you, the players traded didnt have the right philosphy and are out. Right philisophy or were they going to cost too much to keep? Face it, no matter what the Pirates have done and will do, you will be there supporting them. You thought they would have a chance to compete and win this year. You are blinded by emotions.

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Last edited by bullishhitter on Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:59 am 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
...people who don't believe in the philosophy, out, and people willing to buy into the new PBC management style, in. Players who don't have a future with the Pirates, out, well, you get the point.

My optimism has nothing to do with blind faith in the PBC, it has everything to do with evidence linking the Pirates to actual good decision making, no matter how unpopular it is with the fanbase.


I guess according to you, the players traded didnt have the right philosphy and are out. Right philisophy or were they going to cost to much to keep? Face it, no matter what the Pirates have done and will do, you will be there supporting them. You thought they would have a chance to compete and win this year. You are blinded by emotions.



Bay and Nady had no future with the Pirates... when they hit FA in 2 yrs they'd be gone like the wind, leaving us holding the bag, something the old regime would do. At least we got something for them, I'd call that progress. I am actually glad they are gone now because if I had to listen to your whining about how Nutting wasn't willing to pay Nady and Bay the money to stay... I'd be sick.


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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:05 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
... when they hit FA in 2 yrs they'd be gone like the wind, leaving us holding the bag, something the old regime would do. At least we got something for them, I'd call that progress. I am actually glad they are gone now because if I had to listen to your whining about how Nutting wasn't willing to pay Nady and Bay the money to stay... I'd be sick.

They could have been signed and paid accordingly, but thats not going to happen with them or any other player who gets to that point because of the baseball on the cheap way that this organization has been run since 1996. You keep the faith and believe in Bob Nutting. According to him the tools were all in place this year. So what happened?

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:53 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
... when they hit FA in 2 yrs they'd be gone like the wind, leaving us holding the bag, something the old regime would do. At least we got something for them, I'd call that progress. I am actually glad they are gone now because if I had to listen to your whining about how Nutting wasn't willing to pay Nady and Bay the money to stay... I'd be sick.

They could have been signed and paid accordingly, but thats not going to happen with them or any other player who gets to that point because of the baseball on the cheap way that this organization has been run since 1996. You keep the faith and believe in Bob Nutting. According to him the tools were all in place this year. So what happened?

Ask Jason Kendall and Kevin Young how cheap the Pirates are. They got 2 of the most ludicrous contracts ever given in the past 10 years.

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 Post subject: Re: This is what you fall for year in and year out
PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:57 pm 
omgardd wrote:
My patience clearly isn't as good as most on this board.


You also are more realistic than a lot of the posters on the board. Too many think (and then post) based on what they want to see rather than what actually is.


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