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 Post subject: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:16 pm 
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http://post-gazette.com/pg/08244/908520-100.stm

Quote:
"That's a joke," Milwaukee manager Ned Yost said. "The scorekeeper absolutely denied Major League Baseball a no-hitter. He threw a hit up on the board before LaRoche had even hit the bag. It's sad. That's sad. I'm upset. I can see if it was borderline, that it could have gone either way. That wasn't even close."

Yost continued, "If you know baseball at all, you know that's a play that has to be made and is made all the time. He rushed it. That's a stinkin' no-hitter that we all got cheated out of. I'm upset. That was my first no-hitter. I could have told my grandkids about it."

"It is what it is," Sabathia said. "Just lookin' at the replay, I think I would have had him."

This was the play: LaRoche squibbed a 2-2 slider -- off a check-swing -- to the left of the mound. Sabathia got there quickly and tried to barehand the ball but dropped it and never made a throw. Within seconds, Webb announced to the press box that it was a single.


Too bad, so sad...why dont Yost and CC go dig into a pint of Ben & Jerry's from Prince Fielder's lunchbox...er..I mean locker

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:56 pm 
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Here's the thing. It might have been an error. But you can't say it cost you the no-hitter because after that the pressure of the no-hitter is gone. If he still has a no-hitter in the 7th or 8th or even 9th, you behave totally differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:18 pm 
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Exactly...


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:03 pm 
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PLEASE I totally agree they have every right to be pissed. It was clearly an error and the piece of crap scorekeeper kept him from making baseball history. Dont say about the "pressure" would get to him cause it wouldnt with the easy out batters he got to face.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:25 am 
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Sitting behind 1st base, it was clearly an error from my POV. Even after CC muffed the play, it was my opinion that he still had a shot to bend over again, pick up the ball, and get Andy at 1st, though THAT MAY have taken an above average play. Instead, after he missed the ball, he gave up on the play. Still, I was confident that the scorer would change his call at some point; it was that obvious.

When we were going to the game, I told me wife we would see a no hitter. When we left the game, I told her we did see a no hitter, even if the official scorer disagreed.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:32 am 
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It should have been ruled an error. No doubt about it.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:24 pm 
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I think I would care more about this if CC had a chance at the perfect game. He was 2 batters over that feat, so who cares. Move on...


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:50 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
PLEASE I totally agree they have every right to be pissed. It was clearly an error and the piece of crap scorekeeper kept him from making baseball history. Dont say about the "pressure" would get to him cause it wouldnt with the easy out batters he got to face.


I love the hyperbole..."baseball history." Please, it's a no-hitter. There are usually one or two every year. In ten years, this game would have been an answer to a trivia question.

I've been watching the Mets/Brewers game today, and the Mets' announcers totally called out Yost for being a whiner and focusing on something other than the wild card race. I think they specifically called Yost a "five-year old." I couldn't agree more.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:54 pm 
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I disagree. He has every right to be upset in my opinion. You want your guy to get a no-hitter and for the official scorer to rule what was clearly an error a hit would piss me off too.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:24 pm 
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Having not seen the game or the play, I'm willing to take BBF's word that it was a play the should have been ruled an error, thereby maintaining the possibility of a no-hitter. That said, I think the public outrage from Ned Yost is a bit much. No-hitters do not occur often, but they do occur periodically, and considering that one does not necessarily have to be good in order to throw a no-hitter (see Bud Smith, Eric Milton), I think Yost should focus on the more historic thing - the Brewers reaching the playoffs for the first time in 26 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:22 am 
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The other thing that gets me is this hindsight-driven conclusion that the play was absolutely an error. The standard for an error is whether a fielder could have made the out given "ordinary effort," which is about as subjective a standard as you'll find in a sport outside of gymnastics or figure skating. Maybe you think Sabbathia exerted ordinary effort on the play...ok, fine. The official scorer explained that he thought bare handing a ball, spinning, and firing to first did not represent ordinary effort, and I'm inclined to agree. Yeah, maybe he could have used his glove hand to field it, but who knows what would have happened? The whole thing just brings attention to the stupidity of trying to assign errors in the first place.

At any rate, I don't really care, and the outrage this caused is ridiculous. If people put up half the fuss over publicly funded stadiums that they put up over this, no stadium would be funded with tax dollars ever again.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:37 am 
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In any case, where is the kudos in getting a no-hitter against this lineup?

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:13 pm 
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I work with the official scorer for D Backs games. As we were walking to out rooms this morning, I asked him if he had seen a replay of the play and if so, how he would score it. He concurred with the Bucs scorer and said he would have ruled it a hit. He explained that pitchers are given a "pass' on plays and that there could very well have been whining from the Pirate bench if LaRoche had not been given a hit. It is a no win situation for the scorer. He also said that the fact of when it happened would also enter in to the ruling inferring that if it had been the 8th or 9th inning that the ruling might have been different. He also said that there are general guidelines on rulings that the scorers follow. He had told me this before. I may score Az Rookie League games in the future and we have spoken about these guidelines and the training involved to do the scoring. One interesting thin he said was that 30 years ago, it probably would have been ruled and error.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 12:29 pm 
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This situation goes to show why Yost and the Brewers won't make it in the playoffs. They should be more concerned about just getting the "W" and figuring out how they are going to keep from getting their A$$es handed to them by the Cubs again.

I listened to the Pirates scorer get interviewed, he was extremely professional, stated that he went through his progression as stated in "MLB scorers guidlines" and he stood by his decision. Not-to-mention he has 20years of experience. That's good enough for me.

My message to the Brewers:
Maybe Sabathia should have picked it up and thrown Andy out. Don't blame the Pirates offical scorer because you couldn't make the play and left it out to be a judgement call.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 3:19 pm 
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I agree with Charlie:
Quote:
The real problem, it seems to me, is that the "error" is just a stupid category, and it shouldn't be left to scorekeepers to decide whether pitchers get no hitters, or whether runs are earned or unearned. Pitchers are affected by errors that they don't control (and, as this case shows, errors they make themselves), but they're also affected by other defensive inconsistencies that they also don't control. The performance of the Brewers' staff this year is a good example. Part of their improvement in runs allowed compared to last season has to do with the addition of Sabathia and a couple other pitchers, but the biggest difference is probably the improvement of their defense. And yet the scorekeepers don't account for that; they didn't give the 2007 Brewers allowances for the fact that Ryan Braun was a terrible third baseman, unless he made an error. They don't give the 2008 Astros pitchers allowances for Carlos Lee's horrible defense--unless, again, he makes an error.

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2008/8/31/605 ... ght-losses

This all goes back to the lunacy of the earned-run rules. While No. 9 pointed out the logical reason for wanting such a rule, the actual set of rules regarding earned and unearned runs is still an illogical mess. The determination of whether an error occurred is a highly subjective determination that's based on conjecture, and then to reconstruct an inning based upon such a determination to explain what would have happened had the error not occurred does more to obfuscate reality than it does to clarify it. It's a cure that's worse than the perceived disease.

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:36 pm 
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Yost and the Brewers talked about sending a video of the disputed hit to major leage baseball for "review." Sending a video of a scoring call to MLB for review?

Please. That is weak.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Yes, A DVD no less!

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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Ned Yost and the Brewers are setting a pretty bad example for a young ball club by flying off the handle when something hasn't gone their way. I realize that they want to show their support for Sabbathia, but Sabbathia himself said he wouldn't even care if the ruling were changed. When a 20-something pitcher is setting the standard for cool-headedness on a potentially playoff bound team, something is seriously backward.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:43 pm 
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I don't usually agree with much Tim Kurkjian (sp/) says but I had to agree with him on talk radio today in Phoenix when he said that the Brewers are in a pennant race and should just take the win and move on. This is not the time for stuff like this for the Brewers. Yost comes out of it not looking too good at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Brewers Not Happy With Pirates Scorekeeper
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:03 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Yost comes out of it not looking too good at this point.


Masterpiece Theater is proud to present . . .

Ned Yost, in his non-award winning performance of, "How to Be Unhappy About Winning in a 1-Hit Shutout During a Pennant Race."

Notable reviews:

"Simply awful. The guy stinks." Marvin Lubenthorpe, The Placentia Pennysaver.

"He should change his name to 'Ned Yeast' because something is brewing with this guy." Wilma Flintsown, The Rolling Rock Times.

"He needs to focus his energies on things that matter, and not waste his talent and concentration on the unimportant and sublime." Dennis Rodman, Lansbury Correctional Institution Gazette

"Can I have my hat back?" Chad Kreuter, Los Angeles Dodgers.


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