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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:04 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
Everybody take a deep breath, and lay off of the Kool-Aid for a while.


But it tastes so damn good man, and it makes my problems, like, disappear...........

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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:20 pm 
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The tough thing with Bautista is with Jack hurt, Gomez has had to play SS more...If Jack was on the field, Gomez could have spelled Bautista a little more...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:29 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Those are great points Bucfan. NH has made some good calls and deserves credit for those.

However, I think it's fair to balance those with some of his misses.

Cliff Lee ... He tried to get him but didn't. I wouldn't praise a GM for the players he didn't get.


No question, he did not obtain Lee. But there is no doubt but that Lee was the pitcher on his radar. Huntington had a good opinion of Lee, despite his problems in 2007.

That is so far beyond what the prior GM was able to do that there is no comparison. The prior GM could "detect" the best player in another team's minor league system, and one of the 2-3 best in all of baseball - guys like David Wright and Chase Utley.

Well, anybody with eyes and a brain could see that those players were incredibly talented - including their current teams, who had no intention of trading them. Once those teams said "no" to trading the best minor league player in their system, DL had no backup plan. He had no ability to find other talented players who were not so high on the radar.

That was a problem for the Pirates in trade discussions. Way too many times, the discussion seemed to go like this:

DL: "Okay, I have Kris Benson for trade. I want Babe Ruth in return."

OTHER TEAM: "No."

DL: "Uhhhm, but I really want him."

OTHER TEAM: "No. Get real." Click .... bzzzzzz

DL: "Get the Red Sox on the phone. Tell them I want Ted Williams."


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Think how much worse this team would be if the trade with the Red Sox went through if we didn't get damaged goods...

No Freddy, and we would have lost Gonzo, which means no LaRoche

So no All-Star 2nd baseman, no lefthanded power threat at 1st base

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:

Well, anybody with eyes and a brain could see that those players were incredibly talented - including their current teams, who had no intention of trading them.


Well shouldn't we at least give Littlefield credit for recognizing that talent without a brain??!!


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:44 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Think how much worse this team would be if the trade with the Red Sox went through if we didn't get damaged goods...

No Freddy, and we would have lost Gonzo, which means no LaRoche

So no All-Star 2nd baseman, no lefthanded power threat at 1st base


True, Littlefield's player acquisitions were not good. However, the point I was making in this post was not that his trades generally sucked.

My point was why I think that Huntington will be a better GM - he can find talented major league players, including some who are not valued as much by other GM's. Dumatrait, Lee and Yates are three examples.

And I just cannot believe that Huntington would pass on Wieters to select Moskos . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:45 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Well shouldn't we at least give Littlefield credit for recognizing that talent without a brain??!!


That is a condition known as "Moskos Syndrome."


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:54 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Think how much worse this team would be if the trade with the Red Sox went through if we didn't get damaged goods...

No Freddy, and we would have lost Gonzo, which means no LaRoche

So no All-Star 2nd baseman, no lefthanded power threat at 1st base


True, Littlefield's player acquisitions were not good. However, the point I was making in this post was not that his trades generally sucked.

My point was why I think that Huntington will be a better GM - he can find talented major league players, including some who are not valued as much by other GM's. Dumatrait, Lee and Yates are three examples.

And I just cannot believe that Huntington would pass on Wieters to select Moskos . . .


I understand your point, I was just stating how much worse this team would be if not for luck...I am too under the belief that NH is going to be better, the Yates deal has already proved that...
If this team has a lead going into the 7th inning, they are a tough team beat...

Like Teke said after the game lastnight, its still the 1st inning thats killing the pitching staff, only Duke has a 1st inning under 4.00

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:13 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I see something in Osoria as well. His sinker is filthy. He lacks consistency, and he lacks a pitch that can get lefties out, but he could become an outstanding pitcher if he ever gets straightened out.


He is actually very consistent. He throws belt high sinkers almost exclusively. And what is filthy are the results.


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:24 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I see something in Osoria as well. His sinker is filthy. He lacks consistency, and he lacks a pitch that can get lefties out, but he could become an outstanding pitcher if he ever gets straightened out.


He is actually very consistent. He throws belt high sinkers almost exclusively. And what is filthy are the results.


PirateParrot is correct about Osoria's pitching. Last year, he was knee-high, corner.

This year, a ton of his pitches wind up belt-high, middle. Not a good location. Since he is throwing 88 mph, leaving the pitch over the middle of the plate is going to result in bad things - like a 2 WHIP and ERA hovering close to 7.00.


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:44 pm 
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Whatever discussion good or bad(about DL) always will come back to this.

Chris Young for Matt Herges(released before the season)

'Nuff said...


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:47 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Actually, Bautista is plan B for third base. Plan A is struggling in Indianapolis right now. Bautista is a placeholder for Walker. Why expend any sort of resources to bring in a slightly better placeholder?

Uhh, what's Plan C? Heard someone on the radio last week, a national writer who specializes in scouting (sorry that I don't remember his name), who said that many major league scouts outside the Pirate's organization don't think that Walker will ever be successful on the big league level as a third baseman. We'll see...

nad69dan wrote:
only Duke has a 1st inning under 4.00

Wow. Hadn't realized this. That's amazing considering that the line on Duke in the last two years seemed to be, "if we can get through the 1st inning, we might be ok."

BM


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:51 pm 
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burghermeister... good to see you back in the fray.


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:55 pm 
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Thanks PF13. Been reading all along. Just haven't had much time to post.


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:58 pm 
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PirateParrot wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I see something in Osoria as well. His sinker is filthy. He lacks consistency, and he lacks a pitch that can get lefties out, but he could become an outstanding pitcher if he ever gets straightened out.


He is actually very consistent. He throws belt high sinkers almost exclusively. And what is filthy are the results.

That's his problem. His command is inconsistent. When his sinker is down he is very effective. When it isn't, he gets bombed. He had horrible outings on consecutive days vs. the Cubs and Marlins in April, but his ERA in all other games is 4.12. I'd keep sending him out there for now. Remember, he's only 26 years old. He can still improve.

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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:20 pm 
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All this talk of Kool-Aid is giving me a hankering for some Cherry Kool-Aid. I am gonna call mom and see if she can make some for my next visit. (as a 36yr old my skills in the kitchen have been on the decline, I have been relegated to the bench)


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
All this talk of Kool-Aid is giving me a hankering for some Cherry Kool-Aid. I am gonna call mom and see if she can make some for my next visit. (as a 36yr old my skills in the kitchen have been on the decline, I have been relegated to the bench)


My Cooking Skills are like Roger Clemens (the last 3 years)...joining in for the pennant drive...

I can bake an awesome cake from scratch when I feel like it...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Sipping the Kool-Aid once again . . .
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:04 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
PirateParrot wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I see something in Osoria as well. His sinker is filthy. He lacks consistency, and he lacks a pitch that can get lefties out, but he could become an outstanding pitcher if he ever gets straightened out.


He is actually very consistent. He throws belt high sinkers almost exclusively. And what is filthy are the results.

That's his problem. His command is inconsistent. When his sinker is down he is very effective. When it isn't, he gets bombed. He had horrible outings on consecutive days vs. the Cubs and Marlins in April, but his ERA in all other games is 4.12. I'd keep sending him out there for now. Remember, he's only 26 years old. He can still improve.



When they called on Osoria tonight, I had a horrible sinking feeling....namely that his pitches wouldn't. But he did in fact get the job done with a tailor-made ground ball double play. I'm still on the fence with him...I probably wouldn't use him in a critical situation like that if I had my choice, but he isn't a mop up guy either.


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