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 Post subject: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:14 pm 
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NH, FC and Nutting open up the wallet book to pull in Alvarez and others for well above the recommended slot. The team invests money into the Dominican for the baseball academy. They trade veterans at their best value for a high quantity (and quality) of young players.

All signs of a professionally run organization that is willing to invest the money where it counts (minor leagues, drafts and international scouting). Where is your response to this? Same old song and dance that you have been typing for the last few years here or can you recognize good business moves when you see them.

This is your opportunity to prove that you are what you say you are....a Pirate fan that was disgruntled because the ownership wouldn't invest the money into the players only their own pockets. This move is a huge step in the right direction and failure to acknowledge that only further ruins what little reputation you hold here.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:35 pm 
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The pirates are Pittsburgh 55 67 .451 20.0 gb
That is why we all have right to be disgruntled pirate fans...The signing of one good prospect wont save the team they will need to get some quality players via free agency for the 5-10 milion range especially pithching.

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:03 am 
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Great post Ryann and right on the money.The skys didn't suddenly become blue much work and years of it are ahead.I wouldn't start naming reasons for Bullish to say he is sorry because fact is he is armed with 15 years of reasons to post as he does.

Fans have had every right to be mad as hell and nobody should look at the last few months to think Bullish or any negative poster was wrong because they were not.If I had to compare recent events to anything it would be like the Doolittle air raid on Japan after Pearl Harbor.It gave hope but was only a first step.

Lets not act as if all is well it isn't.The Pirates have just begun to throw punches instead of taking it!


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:17 am 
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I will admit the new management of neil huntington is a huge improvement. But there is not a ton of hope with a owner like nutting who allowed DL to destroy this team in everywhere. There still wont be a winning team out there for a couple or few more years.

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:05 am 
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You're right. If this is the only move in the right direction and next year we see more moves like acquiring Matt Morris or trading away Aramis Rameriz, then this will mean nothing. I look at the fact that for the first time in the 16 years of losing, I see a management team with a vision. They are starting to stockpile young talent. Pick the best players available and spend over if need be to sign them. And finally, and potentially the most important of all, investing time and money into Latin America.

Also, Ryann spending 5-10 million on pitching on the free agent market gets you Carlos Silva. Heck, we could spend 18 million and get Barry Zito! Free agency gets you nothing in pitching. Stockpile and develop arms in the minors, that is the way to success.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:41 am 
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This is a tremendous signing and the fact that the Pirates spent so much on the draft is a great sign. I do disagree on one point though: I believe the way you win is to stockpile arms in the minors AND sing appropriate free agents. I think any team that doesn't fully take advantage of all methods to imporove is making a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:53 pm 
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If you need FAs, the only way to do that is the small guys who fill a hole and temperarily at that. It is not, and never will be, the way a small market team cam have a winner. Look around at those who are in Pittsburgh's position. When you become a contender, maybe then you go after someone but not to build.

Until baseball starts to divide the money equally, it is thew only formula that works. We have to be patient.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 1:36 pm 
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At some point and time no matter how many young arms or talent this team is going to have to add a guy and most likely by the market.If you are gunshy because of past failures you are done before you start.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:00 pm 
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HebnerR wrote:
Great post Ryann and right on the money.The skys didn't suddenly become blue much work and years of it are ahead.I wouldn't start naming reasons for Bullish to say he is sorry because fact is he is armed with 15 years of reasons to post as he does.

Fans have had every right to be mad as hell and nobody should look at the last few months to think Bullish or any negative poster was wrong because they were not.If I had to compare recent events to anything it would be like the Doolittle air raid on Japan after Pearl Harbor.It gave hope but was only a first step.

Lets not act as if all is well it isn't.The Pirates have just begun to throw punches instead of taking it!

You miss the point. Bullish has been harping for years that the Pirates weren't even TRYING to win because they were more profitable for ownership as losers. His primary evidence, such is it was, was the team's low payroll. He is on record stating that the Nuttings would never spend any money to improve the team. Now they are spending money. THAT is the point.

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 3:03 pm 
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HebnerR wrote:
At some point and time no matter how many young arms or talent this team is going to have to add a guy and most likely by the market.If you are gunshy because of past failures you are done before you start.

If they do a good job of identifying and developing talent, then the few free agents they need will be the kind of guys you pick up to fill a small hole, not top dollar megastars.

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 5:47 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
HebnerR wrote:
At some point and time no matter how many young arms or talent this team is going to have to add a guy and most likely by the market.If you are gunshy because of past failures you are done before you start.

If they do a good job of identifying and developing talent, then the few free agents they need will be the kind of guys you pick up to fill a small hole, not top dollar megastars.


Like small signings like eric hinske with the rays? Or like a troy percival with the rays?

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:15 pm 
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It depends on the time and the need.To just rule something out all together is pretty silly.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:18 pm 
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No, I think you miss the point.For many years The Pirates were pretty much what Bullish claimed they were.As said before,this is simply a step.All is not wonderful.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:40 pm 
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Then I guess the glass is still mostly empty?

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:07 pm 
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What people fail to realize is that this isn't the first move of this kind from this management group, and...gasp...the ownership group.

They decided to eat the contract of Matt Morris. They outright DFA'd Duffy and Osoria. They sent high profile guys, for this team anyway, down, i.e. Jose Bautista, Ronnie Paulino, Gorzo, etc. They are finally holding guys accountable.

This management group also made some shrewd pick ups, i.e. Chris Gomez, TJ Beam, Jason Davis, Denny Bautista, Jason Michaels, etc.

Don't forget about the added benefit that I posted awhile back in making our trades. We def gained some of our manhood back in the way we handled ourselves during the trade deadline.

Add in how we handled ourselves with Alvarez, Sheppers, Wilson, Grossman, etc., and we are def changing the perception of our franchise in the industry's eyes.

I know it's hard to change from constantly complaining, but we're seeing a lot of good things here.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Then I guess The Pirates have been turned around??The Farm system is stocked from top to bottom,Latin America players have been piling in the system and young arms are pushing for starting roles ?

Lets not forget 15 years of piss because of some hope.No one and I mean no one has proven a damn thing.Not one trade or player has proven he is a sure thing.Lets not get stupid here.The Pirates are 14 games under .500 in their 16th losing season in a row.Do we have anything to crow about?No one of those moves has panned out and it will not be known if it will for sometime.

Hope and fact are far apart.


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Optimism and pessimism are also far apart. There are plenty of reasons to be hopeful about the Pirates in the next couple years. If you choose to be a doubting thomas, no one can blame you. After all, management has so let everyone down for a long time.
But there are many signs and plenty of reasons already listed as to why it is also possible to be sane and optimistic about the PBC. Why not think in those terms?

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:29 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
HebnerR wrote:
At some point and time no matter how many young arms or talent this team is going to have to add a guy and most likely by the market.If you are gunshy because of past failures you are done before you start.

If they do a good job of identifying and developing talent, then the few free agents they need will be the kind of guys you pick up to fill a small hole, not top dollar megastars.


Like small signings like eric hinske with the rays? Or like a troy percival with the rays?

Maybe. I don't know what those two make, so I can't say how small they are. But that type of player, certainly. Or maybe you need a utility guy, or a fourth outfielder good enough to step in to cover for a long injury. You surely can build a decent bench and fill out your bullpen without breaking the bank or wasting a year of development for a young guy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:39 pm 
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HebnerR wrote:
No, I think you miss the point.For many years The Pirates were pretty much what Bullish claimed they were.As said before,this is simply a step.All is not wonderful.

Not so. They hired incompetent baseball people to run the team. Most of the larger contracts they handed out went to undeserving players. You can't tell me that any team that signed Jason Kendall to the huge contract they did was counting pennies.Kevin Young made good money. They aren't spending a great deal more money now than they have in most years, but they're spending it much more wisely. They paid Bay. They paid Giles. They gave Littlefield permission to add Morris' big contract. They're paying Jack Wilson. I could go on and on. Most of the deals they made turned out badly. Given that fact, why would any owner authorize top dollar forays into the free agent market? The Pirates haven't been losing for 16 years because they wouldn't spend. They've been losing for 16 years because they've hired a series of bad GMs.

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Last edited by sisyphus on Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bull....please respond
PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:44 pm 
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HebnerR wrote:
Then I guess The Pirates have been turned around??The Farm system is stocked from top to bottom,Latin America players have been piling in the system and young arms are pushing for starting roles ?

Lets not forget 15 years of piss because of some hope.No one and I mean no one has proven a damn thing.Not one trade or player has proven he is a sure thing.Lets not get stupid here.The Pirates are 14 games under .500 in their 16th losing season in a row.Do we have anything to crow about?No one of those moves has panned out and it will not be known if it will for sometime.

Hope and fact are far apart.

Only for those who lack vision. This management team intends to put a winner on the field, and their actions so far have shown me that they have the ability to judge talent.. The owner is backing them to the hilt. The Pirates will be contenders under Huntingdon. Mark my words. But it isn't going to happen overnight, so you'll be able to wring those last dregs of bitching out of your system just in time to jump on the bandwagon.

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