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 Post subject: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Joey Bats goes back to AAA. Adam LaRoche up from Hickory.

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08226/904174-100.stm


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:35 am 
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Good

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:37 am 
Substitute2 wrote:
Good


He needs to play everyday. He has the talent to be a super sub, but it seems he doesn't have the mentality for pinch hitting.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:41 pm 
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I was wondering about Bautista - basically the question is, does he still have the potential to get better and be a solid every-day player, or has he proven that he is not quite good enough?

I've concluded that the answer is more likely the latter than the former. Here is the evidence:

He will turn 28 this October.

His OPS for the 3 years where he has gotten significant playing time:

2006 .755 400 AB's
2007 .753 532 AB's
2008 .729 314 AB's

Obviously he is not progressing. This is the type of player that he is, and while he contributes offensively, it's not quite enough that you can be satisfied with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:05 pm 
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IMO he was never an every day player. He was the result of Jim Tracy(now there's a name that has quickly been forgotten) trying to force him at third to get rid of Castillo. Move Freddy to second and say that Castillo and Batista would fight it out for 3rd. In truth, Castillo was given little or no chance of winning that in spring training and that was obvious to anyone who watched the suggested competition.

So, Tracy put Batista in the line up and moved freddy to 2nd. I'm not advocating for Castillo cause he has shown his worth with the Giants this year.

But Batista was just another Tracy and DL mistake. It looks like it has been corrected today. Some seem to dismiss Tracy from blam here but I don't. What a bum.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:44 pm 
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I think it becoming more clear all the time that we finally have a GM that knows what a "championship caliber team" needs to look like. He continues to clean up the less than championship caliber talent we had on the team for the past couple of years hoping for a team to make us proud. I think it is very clear he has a plan to return this team to one the fans of this city can be proud to be called our own. If I were still on the 25 man roster and I wasn't performing to the level of a professional and helping this team move forward, I'd be packing my bags because I'll be next. (Paulino, Gorzo, Morris, Bautista, JVB, etc. and counting) Go NH!


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:49 pm 
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I think it was appropriate to give Jose this amount of time to show what he could do, or not do. He showed enough ability to be given a chance, but has also shown that he is not quite good enough to play every day.

He doesn't hit well enough to claim a spot on the corner, and doesn't have the range to play up the middle.

It is time to move on.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:08 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
He was the result of Jim Tracy(now there's a name that has quickly been forgotten) trying to force him at third to get rid of Castillo.
So, Tracy put Batista in the line up and moved freddy to 2nd. I'm not advocating for Castillo cause he has shown his worth with the Giants this year.

But Batista was just another Tracy and DL mistake. Some seem to dismiss Tracy from blam here but I don't. What a bum.


Sorry, you lost me big time here.
Bautista came up as a third baseman. What do you mean that Tracy "forced" Bautista to play 3rd base? What exactly did Tracy do wrong with Bautista?

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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:19 pm 
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It's too bad about Jose. He has been in NH and JR's doghouse since early spring. I have been a fan of his for the last three years, and kind of hoped he hadn't reached his ceiling yet, but it appears he has. He could be a superior utility player if he could learn how to come off the bench. Pretty swing...


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:51 pm 
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No. 9 -- sorry, didn't mean that he forced batista to play at third. I meant that Tracy decided over the winter to move Freddy to second so he could get rid of Castillo. That made room for Batista who you recall played a host of positions for the Bucs the preceeding year.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:57 pm 
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I had high hopes for Bautista prior to last season, but as the numbers suggest, he has failed to improve. He has also been incredibly inconsistent both at the plate and in the field (similar to Castillo in a lot of ways). I think his future is as a bench player, but he must learn to hit off the bench. He didn't seem to adapt to that role too well, whether it was a mental/ego thing or the limited playing time just exaggerated his inconsistencies. Maybe some time in Indy will allow him to make that adjustment.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:01 pm 
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How does Joey get more ABs in AAA? Is Neil Walker going to give up ABs? I highly doubt it. Is there room in the OF? No. 2B? Maybe.........

His best chance may be learning to pitch. Bautista is done.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:08 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
How does Joey get more ABs in AAA? Is Neil Walker going to give up ABs? I highly doubt it. Is there room in the OF? No. 2B? Maybe.........

His best chance may be learning to pitch. Bautista is done.

Neil Walker should give up the ABs; he's not exactly lighting the world on fire in AAA. I would suggest a move down the chain for Walker to allow Bautista some playing time.

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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
How does Joey get more ABs in AAA? Is Neil Walker going to give up ABs? I highly doubt it. Is there room in the OF? No. 2B? Maybe.........

His best chance may be learning to pitch. Bautista is done.


I think Argentum got it exactly right there.. Over and out..

I disagree that he forced bautista to 3rd to whip castillo (he hasn't done wel @ SF either.. look at all SF forums, they had it with Castillo and i believe he is out of SF too).. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd ... rId=rss_sf
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/08/j ... llo-d.html

But at that moment (Tracy) there was no option there except bautista
getting his chance @ 3rd, he did not succeed and now there are betters then him.. And Honestly, except for the spare HOT-weeks he had in those 3 years, he was not a real dangerous weapon in the line-up.

And a Indy he will have no real chance either.. Why give up AB at the cost of Walker for an unimpressive Bautista..
Walker is still improving



Bye Joey Bats...

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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:28 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Argentum wrote:
How does Joey get more ABs in AAA? Is Neil Walker going to give up ABs? I highly doubt it. Is there room in the OF? No. 2B? Maybe.........

His best chance may be learning to pitch. Bautista is done.

Neil Walker should give up the ABs; he's not exactly lighting the world on fire in AAA. I would suggest a move down the chain for Walker to allow Bautista some playing time.


Couldn't disagree more.

Neil Walker - 23 years old, a legitimate prospect who was rated our third best by BP before the season started.

Jose Bautista - 28 years old, was given three seasons to secure a starting spot but failed to deliver.

So what if Bautista does well in AAA...........he should.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Willton wrote:
Argentum wrote:
How does Joey get more ABs in AAA? Is Neil Walker going to give up ABs? I highly doubt it. Is there room in the OF? No. 2B? Maybe.........

His best chance may be learning to pitch. Bautista is done.

Neil Walker should give up the ABs; he's not exactly lighting the world on fire in AAA. I would suggest a move down the chain for Walker to allow Bautista some playing time.


Couldn't disagree more.

Neil Walker - 23 years old, a legitimate prospect who was rated our third best by BP before the season started.

Jose Bautista - 28 years old, was given three seasons to secure a starting spot but failed to deliver.

So what if Bautista does well in AAA...........he should.

Fair point, but I suggested it because Walker does not appear to be improving in AAA, and could probably use the seasoning in AA. If Walker is a serious 3B prospect, he certainly is not hitting like one, and I think he could afford to learn a few more things in AA. As for Bautista, I do not garner high hopes for him, but I do think the Pirates should afford him regular playing time in the minors so that he would not miss a step should the Pirates need his services later on.

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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:49 pm 
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In Indy there is a DH.

Also, if he is going to be a utility guy, he can get some time in the OF, unless of course we need those AB's for Duffy and Nyjer :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:21 pm 
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BBF wrote:
In Indy there is a DH.

Also, if he is going to be a utility guy, he can get some time in the OF, unless of course we need those AB's for Duffy and Nyjer :roll:


I'm not terribly big on using the farm system to groom bench players. Minky, Gomez, Michaels, Rivas, and Chavez are offered into evidence.

We already have a Matt Kata type player at Indy, his name is Matt Kata.


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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
BBF wrote:
In Indy there is a DH.

Also, if he is going to be a utility guy, he can get some time in the OF, unless of course we need those AB's for Duffy and Nyjer :roll:


I'm not terribly big on using the farm system to groom bench players. Minky, Gomez, Michaels, Rivas, and Chavez are offered into evidence.

We already have a Matt Kata type player at Indy, his name is Matt Kata.


I remember John Wehner talking about Jim Leyland sending him to the minors to be groomed as a bench guy, because Jim knew that what his role in the Majors would be...Basically to get used to sitting 5 days a week, get used to the extra batting cage reps, getting adjusted to pinch-hitting, etc...

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 Post subject: Re: Bautista to AAA
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:26 am 
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Substitute2 wrote:
IMO he was never an every day player. He was the result of Jim Tracy(now there's a name that has quickly been forgotten) trying to force him at third to get rid of Castillo. Move Freddy to second and say that Castillo and Batista would fight it out for 3rd. In truth, Castillo was given little or no chance of winning that in spring training and that was obvious to anyone who watched the suggested competition.

So, Tracy put Batista in the line up and moved freddy to 2nd. I'm not advocating for Castillo cause he has shown his worth with the Giants this year.

But Batista was just another Tracy and DL mistake. It looks like it has been corrected today. Some seem to dismiss Tracy from blam here but I don't. What a bum.

I wouldn't call starting him at third a mistake. After all, what other options did they have? If he had progressed from the production he showed the year before, a reasonable assumption for a 26 year old, then they would have had an adequate third baseman. Unfortunately, he stagnated. I have no problem with Tracy's decision to put him at third.

But Littlefield doesn't get off of the hook. He blew it when he left Bautista unprotected for the rule 5 draft. Who knows how that lost year affected his development? Not to mention that we had to trade to get him back.

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