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 Post subject: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Location: State College, PA
(I know that headline could be confusing on a Pirates message board, but bear with me.)

My knowledge about baseball today is fairly limited, but regarding history, it's almost nonexistent. I can tell you virtually nothing about baseball prior to the strike in '94. So as an attempt to better myself as a Pirates fan, I want to ask the members of this board who they consider to be the best Pirates players in history.

My initial inclinations are that the best players in club history were Honus Wagner (because his is the most expensive baseball card, and I've heard him called "The greatest shortstop who ever lived") and Roberto Clemente (I think I remember some dialogue in City Slickers about him, and I also know he died in a tragic plane crash.)

Boom. With the exception of mentioning the Bonds-and-Bonilla t-shirt I had as a kid, I just summarized my entire knowledge of what I'm suspecting is a rich history of Pirates baseball. So feel free to help fill in the gaps. I look forward to being enlightened.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:57 pm 
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There are a number of great, and all time great, players who were Pirates y.

Pie Traynor- often considered the greatest 3b of all time until the '70's gave us Mike Schmidt and others.

Paul Waner
Ralph Kiner- Before Bonds, he was "The Guy" that everyone came to watch, and stayed until his final AB.
Willie Stargell
Bill Mazeroski- easily the best defensive 2b of all time, and considered argueabley, THE best defensive player of all time.

And others that I will leave the stage for others to fill.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:25 pm 
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I would go for Bob Walk, i love bob!

On the pitch, off the Pitch, everywhere...

though my own favorite is the man on the left of me..!

cheerio

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New Amsterdam was a Dutch settlement est. at the southern tip of Manhattan Island which served as seat of the colonial government in the New Dutch territory. It was renamed New York in honor of the then Duke of York.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Derek Bell, Kevin Young, and Pat Meares. Just ask Mr. Cam Bonifay....


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:59 am
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Location: Elizabeth, PA
Bobby Hill, Joe Randa, Humberto Cota, Jeremy Burnitz, & Daniel Moskos

:roll: (my first smiley!)


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:06 am 
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Dave Littlefield and present Bob Nutting are and was huge fan favs.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:27 am 
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Wagner, Clemente, and Stargell are the big 3 that everyone knows about, but Waner was just as good. Maz is just as well know because of the homer but is not in that class as a ballplayer.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:12 pm 
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Ralphie, Maz is considered the best 2b defensively of all time, and possibly THE BEST defensive player of all time. He belongs on that alone.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:59 pm 
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I'm aware of Maz's defensive prowess, but when I think of "the best of the best", I'm thinking about bettter hitters than Maz. Defensively he is certainly in that category.


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:56 pm 
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Though few of these are Hall of Famer types, here's some of my favorite Bucs that I've watched over the years:

1. Dave Parker (loads of talent, sad how his career fizzled)
2. Rennie Stennet (fell to injury)
3. Phil Garner
4. Al Oliver
5. Bill Madlock (wasn't here very long)
6. Mike Easler
7. Tony Pena
8. Richie Hebner
9. Tim Foli
10. Andy Van Slyke (along with Bonds and Bonilla) looked useless when it came time to shine in the playoffs

10. John Candelaria
11. Bruce Kison
12. Doug Drabek
13. Jim Bibby
14. Kent Tekulve


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:13 pm 
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I know there have been better players but the best of the best in my life time would be

OF Clemente Parker Bonds
3rd Madlock SS Alley 2nd Mazeroski 1B Stargell C Sanguein(Sp?)

Pithers
SP Blass
SP Candeleria
SP Bunning
SP Drabek
RP Gossage
RP Gusti
RP Tekulve

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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 4:29 pm 
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OK, I'll bite. Here's my list from my years of watching:

OF- Clemente; Virdon; Van Slyke

Infield: Madlock; Groat, Maz, and Stargell

Catchers: Manny S.; Smokey Burgess

Pitchers: Candaleria
Drabek
Blass
Bob Friend
Teke
Roy Face


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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:30 am 
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yeknom02 wrote:
(I know that headline could be confusing on a Pirates message board, but bear with me.)

My knowledge about baseball today is fairly limited, but regarding history, it's almost nonexistent. I can tell you virtually nothing about baseball prior to the strike in '94. So as an attempt to better myself as a Pirates fan, I want to ask the members of this board who they consider to be the best Pirates players in history.

My initial inclinations are that the best players in club history were Honus Wagner (because his is the most expensive baseball card, and I've heard him called "The greatest shortstop who ever lived") and Roberto Clemente (I think I remember some dialogue in City Slickers about him, and I also know he died in a tragic plane crash.)

Boom. With the exception of mentioning the Bonds-and-Bonilla t-shirt I had as a kid, I just summarized my entire knowledge of what I'm suspecting is a rich history of Pirates baseball. So feel free to help fill in the gaps. I look forward to being enlightened.

Wagner was the greatest Pirate by far. I'd put Clemente and Waner next, then maybe Stargell. Bonds didn't stay in Pittsburgh long enough to qualify on my list. Position by position:

C-Sanguillen
1B-Stargell
2B-Mazeroski
3B-Traynor
SS-Wagner
LF-Bonds, Kiner or Fred Clarke
CF-Max Carey, I guess, but I'd probably move Paul Waner here so I could get him and Clemente both into the lineup.
RF-Clemente or Waner.

That's just off the top of my head.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:35 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
I'm aware of Maz's defensive prowess, but when I think of "the best of the best", I'm thinking about bettter hitters than Maz. Defensively he is certainly in that category.

I think that his defense transcends his bat. That's how great he was. Until Ozzie Smith came along ZelieMike wouldn't have needed to use the word "arguably" when describing Maz as the best defensive player of all time. While I admit that he wasn't a good hitter, I will point out that he managed 138 home runs in a ballpark that absolutely killed him.

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 Post subject: Re: The Best of the Best?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:38 am 
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Location: St. Petersburg, Florida
One factor to remember when comparing Ozzie and Maz is that Ozzie played in the era of ESPN and cable tv. All of America could see his defensive greatness nightly during Sportscenter. Maz was never afforded such a luxury, so most people never got to see his defensive greatness.

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