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 Post subject: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:52 pm 
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By this time Saturday we will have a better understanding of the commitment level of the new Pirate’s management team concerning restocking the minor leagues with impact amateur talent. The August 15th deadline will have come and gone and we will know what the top ten draft picks produced. My hope is we at least sign Alvarez and Scheppers along with the guys we have already signed in the top ten. I guess it is put-up or shut up time for the management. I will also be interested to see who caves and who holds their ground with Boras and Coonley / Huntington with the Alvarez negotiations.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:05 am 
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preach1 wrote:
By this time Saturday we will have a better understanding of the commitment level of the new Pirate’s management team concerning restocking the minor leagues with impact amateur talent. The August 15th deadline will have come and gone and we will know what the top ten draft picks produced. My hope is we at least sign Alvarez and Scheppers along with the guys we have already signed in the top ten. I guess it is put-up or shut up time for the management. I will also be interested to see who caves and who holds their ground with Boras and Coonley / Huntington with the Alvarez negotiations.


Interesting post.
On the one hand, you claim it is "put up or shut up time" for management to restock the minor leagues with impact amateur talent.
On the other hand, you are interested to "see who caves and who holds their ground" between Boras and Huntington with Alvarez.

Your seem to suggest that management better sign Alvarez et al to restock the minor leagues or they are simply full of hot air. Yet, you seem interested to see whether Huntington "holds his ground" with Boras which suggests that Huntington will have to "cave in" to Boras' demands to demonstrate a commitment to stocking the minor leagues.

I'm not convinced that "caving in" to Boras' demands equates to a commitment to winning or re-stocking the minor leagues or that Huntington "holding his ground" and losing Alvarez demonstrates a lack of commitment. IMO, there are shades of grey in-between.

Will make for a very interesting evening on Friday. I hope that I can stay up long enough to get the final word. I'll be shocked if it is anything other than a last minute deal with Alvarez - which, unfortunately, may impact other signings as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:51 am 
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Been on vacation in the high peaks of the Adirondacks this past week, so missed a lot.

But, I'll be interested to see folks responses if the Pirates hold ground. Remember, we were told ad nauseum to take a Boras client because we could always get back two first round picks next year if they did not sign.

Be interesting to see if folks maintain the position in the face of a no-signature.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:28 pm 
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How about that!. ZM, I've been on vacation too at the ocean for a week. I missed all the reaction to the Bay trade and much more.

I will also be very interested in this week's development and also not ready to cast judgement until the whole story is in.

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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:01 pm 
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This is a tough call.They don't want to overpay yet no way the fan base goes for two next year picks to lose this years pick with recent History. They have to sign those picks as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:07 pm 
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If Boros is asking for too much money, I for one have no problem letting Alvarez walk. Unfortunately, no matter what Boros asks for, the public perception will be that the Pirates should have caved in and signed.

I think a deal gets done. I don't see how Alvarez can justify going back to school and risk watching his value decline. The Pirates do have some leverage in this regard.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:10 pm 
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HebnerR wrote:
This is a tough call.They don't want to overpay yet no way the fan base goes for two next year picks to lose this years pick with recent History. They have to sign those picks as well.


True. But agents next year will know that they can't expect to fleece Coonley in negotiations. That will be worth something. I like the way Coonley has handled this so far. I expect a positive outcome. Frankly, I'll be more disappointed if the Pirates cave to the pressure and give an outrageous signing bonus than if they walk away from the table. IMHO, the Alvarez bonus should be something akin to what Wieters got last year, in the 6-7 million range. If it's 8 figures, they will live to regret it.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:18 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
HebnerR wrote:
This is a tough call.They don't want to overpay yet no way the fan base goes for two next year picks to lose this years pick with recent History. They have to sign those picks as well.


True. But agents next year will know that they can't expect to fleece Coonley in negotiations. That will be worth something. I like the way Coonley has handled this so far. I expect a positive outcome. Frankly, I'll be more disappointed if the Pirates cave to the pressure and give an outrageous signing bonus than if they walk away from the table. IMHO, the Alvarez bonus should be something akin to what Wieters got last year, in the 6-7 million range. If it's 8 figures, they will live to regret it.


I don't think they'd regret it if he ends up being a stud, but I agree that they can't give him 8 figures, that's a ridiculous amount of money for someone who has never played in the majors. Boras's deals always go down to the wire (remember Dice-K?), so I'm saving my angst for Saturday and crossing my fingers until then. I'd be surprised if he didn't get signed though.

Has anyone heard anything about Scheppers and Wilson?


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:21 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
Has anyone heard anything about Scheppers and Wilson?


The local paper said Scheppers is in town for a workout. Guess the Pirates want to see how his arm is before offering.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:41 pm 
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No. 9 wrote:
preach1 wrote:
By this time Saturday we will have a better understanding of the commitment level of the new Pirate’s management team concerning restocking the minor leagues with impact amateur talent. The August 15th deadline will have come and gone and we will know what the top ten draft picks produced. My hope is we at least sign Alvarez and Scheppers along with the guys we have already signed in the top ten. I guess it is put-up or shut up time for the management. I will also be interested to see who caves and who holds their ground with Boras and Coonley / Huntington with the Alvarez negotiations.


Interesting post.
On the one hand, you claim it is "put up or shut up time" for management to restock the minor leagues with impact amateur talent.
On the other hand, you are interested to "see who caves and who holds their ground" between Boras and Huntington with Alvarez.

Your seem to suggest that management better sign Alvarez et al to restock the minor leagues or they are simply full of hot air. Yet, you seem interested to see whether Huntington "holds his ground" with Boras which suggests that Huntington will have to "cave in" to Boras' demands to demonstrate a commitment to stocking the minor leagues.

I'm not convinced that "caving in" to Boras' demands equates to a commitment to winning or re-stocking the minor leagues or that Huntington "holding his ground" and losing Alvarez demonstrates a lack of commitment. IMO, there are shades of grey in-between.

Will make for a very interesting evening on Friday. I hope that I can stay up long enough to get the final word. I'll be shocked if it is anything other than a last minute deal with Alvarez - which, unfortunately, may impact other signings as well.


Well said No.9

Its really up to Alvarez whether he wants to go back to school (without money) for another year or not, and next year there is supposed to be a glut of good pitching available.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:16 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Unfortunately, no matter what Boros asks for, the public perception will be that the Pirates should have caved in and signed.


B-I-N-G-O.
That public perception will extend beyond Pittsburgh and will be reported by the national media as another example (rightly or wrongly) of the Pirates being "cheap" or being unable to afford first rate talent.

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Reflexively, obsessively and tastelessly submitted,
No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: Its Put-up or Shut Up week
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:57 am 
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No. 9 wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Unfortunately, no matter what Boros asks for, the public perception will be that the Pirates should have caved in and signed.


B-I-N-G-O.
That public perception will extend beyond Pittsburgh and will be reported by the national media as another example (rightly or wrongly) of the Pirates being "cheap" or being unable to afford first rate talent.


Fortunately it seems that the Pirates have a GM who, though he will consider fan and public reaction, will not make himself beholden to it.

But Alvarez would be stupid not to sign right? A year back in college means a. no money right now, b. he enters the majors a year older, c. enters free agency that much later, and d. risks getting hurt or underperforming and having his stock drop precipitously going into next year's draft. I think he'll sign a couple hours before the deadline.


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