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 Post subject: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:25 am 
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I see today the two articles saying we are running out of time and we have to sign Alvarez or essentially the Pirate fans will revolt. But is that true? What would be better, to sign Alvarez and not be able to sign the rest of the top ten draft picks or sign the balance of the top ten and pick up the two supplimental picks next year for Alvarez? I want to sign him AND sign the other guys too but if we had to choose, what would be better?


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:49 am 
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Signing Alvarez at a price that is fair for both sides would be better.


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:14 am 
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Plenty of time.

Last year Major League Baseball announced a change in the negotiation timetable for Rule IV draft picks. Instead of the previous deadline of 51 weeks, teams now have until 11:59 (EST) on the Ides of August.

In the first year under this new system, seven of the first 30 picks waited until the August 15th deadline before all the t’s and x’s were crossed and the i’s and lower case j’s were dotted. David Price (No. 1 overall, Tampa) Mike Moustakas (No. 2, Kansas City) Josh Vitters (No. 3, Chicago Cubs) Matt Wieters (No. 5, Baltimore) Jarrod Parker (No. 9, Arizona) Matt Dominguez (No. 12, Florida) and Andrew Brackman (No. 30, New York Yankees) each took contract talks down to the wire and each ended up signing for over the recommended slot bonus. The seven players’ deals combined were worth $9.845 million more than slot.........

........It looks like all 30 picks will end up signing, but also that some owners will end up cutting slightly larger checks than they wish.


http://www.projectprospect.com/article/2008/07/21/2008-mlb-draft-signings


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:45 am 
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Argentum wrote:
...teams now have until 11:59 (EST) on the Ides of August.


Silly sports writers. The Ides of August refers to August 13th. (And if we're really being Roman calendar purists, it's Sextilis, not August.) When will people do a little history and stop making inferences from what little they remember from Shakespeare?


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:52 am 
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Ralphie wrote:
Signing Alvarez at a price that is fair for both sides would be better.



What exactly is fair for an unproven player who has never payed professionally?


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:05 pm 
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yeknom02 wrote:
When will people do a little history and stop making inferences from what little they remember from Shakespeare?


I had an original thought - all my own:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creep in this petty pace from day-to-day,
To the last syllables of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools their way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!!

I have not finished yet. What do you think??


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:20 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
I had an original thought - all my own:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creep in this petty pace from day-to-day,
To the last syllables of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools their way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!!

I have not finished yet. What do you think??


I like it. Perhaps you could expand that into a longer story about King Macbeth of Scotland. And, you know, be as historically inaccurate as you want - as long as it reads well. Once it gets famous, we could derive the superstition that it's unlucky to mention it by name on sports message boards, lest the team starts losing incessantly.


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
yeknom02 wrote:
When will people do a little history and stop making inferences from what little they remember from Shakespeare?


I had an original thought - all my own:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creep in this petty pace from day-to-day,
To the last syllables of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools their way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!!

I have not finished yet. What do you think??


Stick to your day job, Bucfan. You exhibit no talent whatsoever. In fact, I find your lame attempt at writing to be full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Hey, that last phrase is kinda catchy....


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:07 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
Signing Alvarez at a price that is fair for both sides would be better.



What exactly is fair for an unproven player who has never payed professionally?


From what I gather, a signing bonus in the 6-7 million area is the going rate for a #3 pick, along with a minor league contract.


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:19 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
yeknom02 wrote:
When will people do a little history and stop making inferences from what little they remember from Shakespeare?


I had an original thought - all my own:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creep in this petty pace from day-to-day,
To the last syllables of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools their way to dusty death.
Out, out, brief candle!!

I have not finished yet. What do you think??


Stick to your day job, Bucfan. You exhibit no talent whatsoever. In fact, I find your lame attempt at writing to be full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Hey, that last phrase is kinda catchy....

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:32 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Stick to your day job, Bucfan. You exhibit no talent whatsoever. In fact, I find your lame attempt at writing to be full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.....


I had to go out, out a brief while.

What did I miss?


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:09 am 
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Let the offer stand and draft him again next year.
Really. Or just draft a shortstop and pitcher seeing
that is what we need.
Signalvarez.com

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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:16 am 
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"and no comment on any other
"gayly written" posts that have
no place in baseball talk"
-end comment-
BC

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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:26 am 
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So I was geeking out in the live chat with Coonelly yesterday and Alvarez came up not surprisingly quite a few times. I would have posted this yesterday, but the transcript wasn't available. It is now:

gjs867: Why wouldn't we overpay Alvarez?

Coonelly: gjs867, your question sounds like it may have been submitted on behalf of [agent] Scott Boras. We have been extremely aggressive in our efforts to sign Alvarez. We have been so aggressive that even our initial offer could meet some people's definition of "overpaying." We cannot, however, impair our ability to sign other drafted players, impair our ability to sign high Draft choices in 2009 and beyond or impair our ability to sign and retain our good young players like McLouth, Doumit and others, by simply giving every dollar that's available to this organization to one player who has never put on a professional uniform or taken a single at bat at the Major League level.

That would be irresponsible and would hamstring the organization for years to come. Pedro is an extremely talented player who has had a decorated amateur career, and we hope he will have a long and successful career with the Pirates.

shamtown: What would you say the chances of signing Alvarez are? If we can't sign high end Draft picks because of money, does it make sense to take them?

Coonelly: shamtown, all right this will have to be the last question of the day and, not surprisingly it is another question on the Alvarez negotiations.

It's impossible for me to place odds on our ability to sign Pedro. All I can say is that we very much want to sign him, and we continue to believe that he very much wants to sign with the Pirates. Returning for his senior year at Vanderbilt and coming out into the Draft as a senior with very little leverage or playing independent ball are not particularly attractive options for him, and while the third selection in the draft which we would receive as compensation if we are unable to sign Pedro is certainly a valuable asset, our strong preference is signing Alvarez this year.

We selected Pedro because he was, in our view, the best player available when we selected at No. 2. We believe that we can sign him, and we thought it was critical for us not to take a compromise or "safe" player. This is something that the organization has been accused of doing in the past. Whether this was the approach in the past or not is irrelevant. Our approach is to select the best player available when we Draft and to make every effort to sign him. We have sufficient resources to sign Pedro, consistent even with the escalated Draft values of today.

Coonelly: Thanks to all of you for joining us this month. We appreciate your passion for Pirates baseball.


Full transcript: http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080806&content_id=3263276&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp&c_id=pit


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:01 pm 
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I find it hard to find a problem with anything in Coonelly responses.

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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Coonelly is taking a responsible position on this issue - we want to sign him, but for reasonable value.

And for BH - every player has a reasonable value to a team. Every player, every team. This is not unique to the Pirates.

I think that Alvarez signs on August 14.


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 Post subject: Re: Signing Alvarez
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:05 pm 
I'm pretty confident they will sign him. I also agree with FC that they shouldn't "grossly" overpay him. They pay need to overpay him a little, though, an that shouldn't be an issue. When you don't put much money into payroll and the reason you give is because you're rebuilding the minor league system, you have set yourself up for that ... an agent to say "Oh yeah? Prove it."

Let's hope Frank does prove the dedication to development and sign Alvarez.


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