Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:24 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:43 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
Most have labled the Bay trade as a good move, since the Buccos got four good prospects in return (Morris, Laroche, Moss and Hansen). We have already seen that Moss, Hansen and Laroche have a lot to offer.

But some (including a few on this site and many on DK's blog discussion right after the trade) clearly criticize the Bay move, suggesting that the Pirates are guilty of a "salary dump." Well, how in heaven's sake can that be claimed? The Pirates acquired two players - Andy Laroche and Bryan Morris - who were good enough to bring Manny Ramirez in exchange. That alone should have been enough for Jason Bay, a fine and talented player but not a certain Hall-of Famer.

Additionally, the Buccos also obtained for Bay two other very quality players - Greg Hansen, a number one draft selection and a guy who throws 97 mph, and Brandon Moss, a corner outfielder with a gun who looks like he will hit, hit for power, draw walks, and log a pretty high OBP. In other words, Jason Bay-lite, with a cannon arm.

Just wondering if critics of the trade have pondered these facts.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:54 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7272
Bucfan wrote:
Most have labled the Bay trade as a good move, since the Buccos got four good prospects in return (Morris, Laroche, Moss and Hansen). We have already seen that Moss, Hansen and Laroche have a lot to offer.

But some (including a few on this site and m*** on DK's blog discussion right after the trade) clearly criticize the Bay move, suggesting that the Pirates are guilty of a "salary dump." Well, how in heaven's sake can that be claimed? The Pirates acquired two players - Andy Laroche and Bryan Morris - who were good enough to bring Manny Ramirez in exchange. That alone should have been enough for Jason Bay, a fine and talented player but not a certain Hall-of Famer.

Additionally, the Buccos also obtained for Bay two other very quality players - Greg Hansen, a number one draft selection and a guy who throws 97 mph, and Brandon Moss, a corner outfielder with a gun who looks like he will hit, hit for power, draw walks, and log a pretty high OBP. In other words, Jason Bay-lite, with a cannon arm.

Just wondering if critics of the trade have pondered these facts.


I'm thinking its just fans thinking that this is the same old Pirates dumping good players because they have to...
Neal Huntington and Co. have done a great job in the time they've been here in adding 'real' talent and helped add some depth to the minor leagues

8 players for 3 all of whom would have been gone after next season for guys they have control over for many years

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:18 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:17 pm
Posts: 519
As the guy who writes on Bucs Dugout said, "very few players stay with one team for their entire career any longer" and he sited the Red Sox who only have four players remaining from their 2004 World Series team. As painful as it is for us "old timers" who remember Clemente, Maz, Willie, etc. staying with the Bucs for their careers, he's right. There's tremendous player movement in baseball now, compared to pre-free agency. The value now is on developing young guys, keeping them for 5 or 6 years, and then trading the good ones for more young prospects. I think Neal is doing it right. It is painful, but it's the only way to be successful, especially for a smaller market team. We saw what happened when DL signed Randa, Burnitz, and other "over the hill" free agents. It was a disaster! The Pirates obviously have some money to spend and are willing to spend it (Morris, Randa, Burnitz), but in the past, the money wasn't spent wisely. Now, we seem to have a competent front office, so I feel more positive about the direction of the team. Go Bucs!


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
DocJeanO wrote:
We saw what happened when DL signed Randa, Burnitz, and other "over the hill" free agents. It was a disaster!


I thought that Chris Stynes at third worked out very well.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Bucfan wrote:
DocJeanO wrote:
We saw what happened when DL signed Randa, Burnitz, and other "over the hill" free agents. It was a disaster!


I thought that Chris Stynes at third worked out very well.

Randall Simon part deux was pretty successful too. :roll: :D

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Willton wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
DocJeanO wrote:
We saw what happened when DL signed Randa, Burnitz, and other "over the hill" free agents. It was a disaster!


I thought that Chris Stynes at third worked out very well.

Randall Simon part deux was pretty successful too. :roll: :D


I will always hold a spot in my heart for "Operation Shutdown"


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
For what it's worth, my friends who are Dodger fans kind of chuckled at this deal. They think getting Manny for only two prospects was a steal and they fleeced Boston.

Of course LA hasn't exactly been fantastic since the deal went down.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:12 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:41 pm
Posts: 843
Jeremy wrote:
For what it's worth, my friends who are Dodger fans kind of chuckled at this deal. They think getting Manny for only two prospects was a steal and they fleeced Boston.

Of course LA hasn't exactly been fantastic since the deal went down.


They didn't exactly fleece Boston, they still have to sign Manny next year. I know Manny said he wants to be in LA for the rest of his career, but the guy suffers from a pretty severe case of Bright Shiny Object Disorder. If someone offers him more money than LA, he's taking it, and he's forgetting anything he said previously. In all likelihood, he already doesn't remember saying that. Your friends will find out pretty soon what "Manny being Manny" means...

If the Dodgers don't make the playoffs, that deal amounts to a worthless two month rental. I don't think Boston got back fair value for Manny, but if I'm a Dodgers fan I don't like the long term implications of the deal.

The Bay deal was great for the Bucs, I'm reasonably convinced at least two of the guys they got will end up working out, namely Moss and LaRoche.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Jeremy wrote:
For what it's worth, my friends who are Dodger fans kind of chuckled at this deal. They think getting Manny for only two prospects was a steal and they fleeced Boston.

Of course LA hasn't exactly been fantastic since the deal went down.


I think LA got the worst of it actually, Manny might provide them with some nice numbers, but they have nothing to offer in the post-season. After all that Manny will sign elsewhere, jeez, 20Million a season for an aging DH. So in effect, LA loses 2 quality prospects to see Manny sign on with the highest bidder.

The Red Sox, got a know commodity in Jason Bay, although, not the hitter Manny was, Jason offers more tools than Manny did, defense, speed, hustle, and peace and quiet.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 10:10 am
Posts: 1328
Jeremy wrote:
Of course LA hasn't exactly been fantastic since the deal went down.

Well, they're 2-1 with him in the lineup and his OPS as a Dodger is a mere 1.769. I'd say things are going ok so far.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7272
Bucfan wrote:
DocJeanO wrote:
We saw what happened when DL signed Randa, Burnitz, and other "over the hill" free agents. It was a disaster!


I thought that Chris Stynes at third worked out very well.


Has anyone seen Raul Mondesi?

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Thu May 08, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 1163
burghermeister wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Of course LA hasn't exactly been fantastic since the deal went down.

Well, they're 2-1 with him in the lineup and his OPS as a Dodger is a mere 1.769. I'd say things are going ok so far.


I still think I'd take Jason's production to this point.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10693
nad69dan wrote:
Has anyone seen Raul Mondesi?


Image

Raul Mondesi working on his new craft


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7272
Bucfan wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
Has ***one seen Raul Mondesi?


Image

Raul Mondesi working on his new craft


Wow, maybe Raul and Littlefield need to get into the Garbage collecting business...DL had an eye for trash...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: I am wondering regarding criticism of the Bay trade ...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:49 pm
Posts: 68
Location: State College, PA
nad69dan wrote:
Has anyone seen Raul Mondesi?

Raúl Mondesi is now actually an elected official and recently tried to help resolve a hostage situation.

see: http://thebiglead.com/?p=6953

...and knowing is half the battle!


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits