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 Post subject: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:55 pm 
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I am just curious who you would like to see as a bucco next year

by trade or by free agency??

(and ofcourse it has to be legit option and not fantasy-manny-like)

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:47 pm 
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jason donald double A short stop with reading phillies.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Q. When was the last time the Pirates had a shortstop who could hit for average, power, and produce runs?
A. Arky Vaughn(1932-41) or Honus Wagner(1903-16)

The Pirates need to get a shortstop who can be a difference maker at the plate and be good enough in the field. They'll need to draft or acquire via draft a talent like this because there's not a chance in the world this team will ever be able to afford a player like this in free agency under this ownership group.

Otherwise, this team isn't doing anything of note in the offseason to make a difference for 2009 unless you considering trading Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, and John Grabow earth shattering.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:07 pm 
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I'd like a starting pitcher like Scott Baker of the Twins.

Jhonny Peralta hits for power but isn't Jack Wilson with the glove.

Doumit needs a backup, a guy like Kelly Shoppach or Mike Redmond. We could use a crafty veteran reliever like Brian Shouse, but he's already 40 and pitching in our division. It's hard to think players without knowing their contract status.

There's no way we can re-sign Grabow?


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:09 pm 
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i personally dont want to see any free agent signings, from the list i found online there are few quality players, those that are, are getting up in age and fairly over priced.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:34 pm 
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The quality free agents (I use this term loosely for some) are Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira, Orlando Hudson, Joe Crede, Milton Bradley, Adam Dunn, Pat Burrell, Ryan Dempster, Jon Garland, Brian Fuentes, and Francisco Rodriguez.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Eric Bowser wrote:
Q. When was the last time the Pirates had a shortstop who could hit for average, power, and produce runs?
A. Arky Vaughn(1932-41) or Honus Wagner(1903-16)

The Pirates need to get a shortstop who can be a difference maker at the plate and be good enough in the field. They'll need to draft or acquire via draft a talent like this because there's not a chance in the world this team will ever be able to afford a player like this in free agency under this ownership group.

Otherwise, this team isn't doing anything of note in the offseason to make a difference for 2009 unless you considering trading Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, and John Grabow earth shattering.

And how many NL pennants did the Pirates win without Vaughn? None. How many did they win without Vaughn or Wagner? Five, plus four World Championships and seven division titles.

The point is that shortstops who hit for average and power are not necessary for a team to win. Just ask Jackie Hernandez and Tim Foli.

A second point is that you don't seem to realize that guys who can play good shortstop while putting up HOF numbers at the plate are extremely rare.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
I'd like a starting pitcher like Scott Baker of the Twins.

Jhonny Peralta hits for power but isn't Jack Wilson with the glove.

Doumit needs a backup, a guy like Kelly Shoppach or Mike Redmond. We could use a crafty veteran reliever like Brian Shouse, but he's already 40 and pitching in our division. It's hard to think players without knowing their contract status.

There's no way we can re-sign Grabow?

Chavez is fine as Doumit's backup, and Ronnie Paulino ain't dead yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:17 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Eric Bowser wrote:
Q. When was the last time the Pirates had a shortstop who could hit for average, power, and produce runs?
A. Arky Vaughn(1932-41) or Honus Wagner(1903-16)

The Pirates need to get a shortstop who can be a difference maker at the plate and be good enough in the field. They'll need to draft or acquire via draft a talent like this because there's not a chance in the world this team will ever be able to afford a player like this in free agency under this ownership group.

Otherwise, this team isn't doing anything of note in the offseason to make a difference for 2009 unless you considering trading Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, and John Grabow earth shattering.

And how many NL pennants did the Pirates win without Vaughn? None. How many did they win without Vaughn or Wagner? Five, plus four World Championships and seven division titles.

The point is that shortstops who hit for average and power are not necessary for a team to win. Just ask Jackie Hernandez and Tim Foli.

A second point is that you don't seem to realize that guys who can play good shortstop while putting up HOF numbers at the plate are extremely rare.



Although it's a different era of baseball now then it was then, I still tend to agree. Recent World Series champions haven't had much in the way of heavy hitting shortstops. On the contrary, it seems like the premiere hitting shortstops are not winning championships (Miguel Tejada comes to mind). I think those guys come at such a premium that they can cripple what a team can get financially in other areas.

Shortstop is such an important position defensively that I think defense has to be the priority there, as opposed to first base or left field say. As maddening as Jack Wilson is with the bat, I think the pieces are in place to work around that.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:03 pm 
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I would like to see the Pirates continue to add to the pitching staff. The team has done a nice job addressing their biggest weakness (rotation) the last couple weeks, let's hope that continues. I would be fine with a smart free agent signing to further add to the rotation. There should be some money available now.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:34 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Eric Bowser wrote:
Q. When was the last time the Pirates had a shortstop who could hit for average, power, and produce runs?
A. Arky Vaughn(1932-41) or Honus Wagner(1903-16)

The Pirates need to get a shortstop who can be a difference maker at the plate and be good enough in the field. They'll need to draft or acquire via draft a talent like this because there's not a chance in the world this team will ever be able to afford a player like this in free agency under this ownership group.

Otherwise, this team isn't doing anything of note in the offseason to make a difference for 2009 unless you considering trading Jack Wilson, Freddy Sanchez, and John Grabow earth shattering.

And how many NL pennants did the Pirates win without Vaughn? None. How many did they win without Vaughn or Wagner? Five, plus four World Championships and seven division titles.

The point is that shortstops who hit for average and power are not necessary for a team to win. Just ask Jackie Hernandez and Tim Foli.

A second point is that you don't seem to realize that guys who can play good shortstop while putting up HOF numbers at the plate are extremely rare.


I am going to agree with Sisy here. We should be more worried about fixing the starting pitching than about finding a SS. I still don't get how everyone wants Jack outa here, the dude is above average defensively, affordable, and he wants to be here. So what if he hits .265. I think baseball fans have been spoiled by the likes of Ripken, Garciaparra, Jeter, AROD, and Young(SS's that hit with power), 3 of them moved to 3B anyway.

If we trade away Jack Wilson today or even at the end of the season, we are taking a major step back. I don't think thats going to happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:01 pm 
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Can't agree more...as I see it, the Pirates have already gone a long way in attempting to fix their light hitting infield, and there's no need to trade Wilson (now). If the LaRoche brothers and Sanchez can stay healthy and hit consistently next year, that's a nice hitting infield right there.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:17 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
If the LaRoche brothers and Sanchez can stay healthy and hit consistently next year, that's a nice hitting infield right there.

That's a big if, especially with Sanchez, as he is on the wrong side of 30, has bad plate discipline, and has a bum shoulder. If anyone needs to be replaced, it's Sanchez.

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:27 pm 
Willton wrote:
jaybee24 wrote:
If the LaRoche brothers and Sanchez can stay healthy and hit consistently next year, that's a nice hitting infield right there.

That's a big if, especially with Sanchez, as he is on the wrong side of 30, has bad plate discipline, and has a bum shoulder. If anyone needs to be replaced, it's Sanchez.


I agree for the most part. I don't know about flat-out replacing Sanchez, but I think bringing in another option is what they need to do.

I can't tell you how thrilled I am that NH appears to employ the long-forgotten (at least by DL and Cam) approach of giving yourself options at every position. They've done that at 3rd base, the OF - even 1B to a lesser extent (Pearce could play there). They're slowly getting the numbers up to where they can do that with the rotation. Now let's see them do that at 2B and SS, along with the rotation (as Zane41 pointed out earlier). They have some money to spend, let's hope they spend it in those places.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:39 pm 
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If they pull another option in, Freddy has to go...Hes making too much $$$ to be a backup 2nd baseman...His days at SS and 3rd are over...Maybe in an extreme case in the 18th inning he goes there, but hes not a left side of 2nd base infielder anymore

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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:43 pm 
nad69dan wrote:
If they pull another option in, Freddy has to go...Hes making too much $$$ to be a backup 2nd baseman...His days at SS and 3rd are over...Maybe in an extreme case in the 18th inning he goes there, but hes not a left side of 2nd base infielder anymore


They just freed up a ton of $$$. No need to get rid of Freddy just to get rid of him. Bring in someone else and have them compete. Maybe he reverts back to his old form and he's not your backup 2B.


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 Post subject: Re: Who Do You Like To See In Pirates Tenue Next Year?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:48 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
If they pull another option in, Freddy has to go...Hes making too much $$$ to be a backup 2nd baseman...His days at SS and 3rd are over...Maybe in an extreme case in the 18th inning he goes there, but hes not a left side of 2nd base infielder anymore


They just freed up a ton of $$$. No need to get rid of Freddy just to get rid of him. Bring in someone else and have them compete. Maybe he reverts back to his old form and he's not your backup 2B.


My initial impressions of NH are quite optimistic. I have to think the wheels are in motion on dealing with 2b should Freddy continue to struggle. NH definitely seems to be proactive, not reactive, in his thinking. The thought of having Mickey Morandini at 2b for the next few years has to scare him just a bit.


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