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 Post subject: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:10 pm 
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Although on the surface I don't like this deal, due to the fact that this seems to repeat itself each July with us getting nothing in return, I am open to the fact that maybe, just maybe, this gang knows what they are doing.

That being said, I think the best baseball guy in the organization is Bob Walk. He knows his stuff, and is a straight shooter. I missed the pregame show today, so does anyone know his feelings on the changes??

Like I said, if I am wrong about this, and I hope I am, I will happily admit it.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:12 pm 
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having a fever steve?? ;)

i am just a few days here on this board.. but is this our steve???

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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:20 pm 
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The difference is this time we are getting highly ranked prospects. There seems to be more of an agreement that these young guys are highly regarded. I think we're fortunate under the circumstances. The Red Sox gave away more than they wanted in their effort to unload Manny.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:26 pm 
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No fever. I still don't like it. Our history of doing this every year is not very good, you must admit. We always send away our good guys and get a bunch of guys who are spread around from Hickory, to Altoona, and Indy, and then never heard from again.

But, it happened. I am hoping this time, after all these years will be different. Some of you guys are pretty smart, and think it will be. I hope you are right, but I need to see it.

Gammons comments are nice, but let's face it, the rest of the league and the national media don't pay any attention to the Buccos, nor do they know much about them. Their world revolves around the Yanks and the Red Sox, the American League, and sometimes the Braves.

Bob Walk is a Bucco, through and through. That is why his opinion interests me.

I see we're up 2-0 in the fourth. Perhaps, just perhaps, I'm going to be shown to be wrong. I hope so.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:30 pm 
Steve1118 wrote:
No fever. I still don't like it. Our history of doing this every year is not very good, you must admit. We always send away our good guys and get a bunch of guys who are spread around from Hickory, to Altoona, and Indy, and then never heard from again.

But, it happened. I am hoping this time, after all these years will be different. Some of you guys are pretty smart, and think it will be. I hope you are right, but I need to see it.

Gammons comments are nice, but let's face it, the rest of the league and the national media don't pay any attention to the Buccos, nor do they know much about them. Their world revolves around the Yanks and the Red Sox, the American League, and sometimes the Braves.

Bob Walk is a Bucco, through and through. That is why his opinion interests me.

I see we're up 2-0 in the fourth. Perhaps, just perhaps, I'm going to be shown to be wrong. I hope so.


So long as Nutting and company continue to do the right things, I think you will be wrong (no offense). In other words, yesterday's trade was not enough.

Nutting now needs to open the purse strings to sign these guys once they mature, continue to draft the right prospects, sign guys from Latin America, sign appropriate free agents, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:35 pm 
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Yes, this is just the latest step in a long road. You can't assume that the latest moves are just a continuation of what prior failed regimes have done.

The new regime has to be given time - like up to 3 more years - to see if they are making the right moves.

Now I want to see those draft picks signed. And we should be able to add a quality free-agent or two this offseason with the money we won't be paying Morris and these other guys who were traded.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Steve.. i think everybody understands and has the same feelings u do..

i do for sure, but this time it feels differently.. for example the way NH does it, not taking less then he could,
wait for more teams to inquire (he heard the braves, rays, marlins, jays) and agreed on the best deal..

and for example the nady/marte deal.. he took the time and made the trade after viewing more options
(proof was the word on the first names (kontos etc) that later was changed)..

Maybe a little proof already that we took Alvarez (the boras man) instead of an easier signy or at spring training
by showing that lack of discipline was not tolerated (paulino) and there was some real fire in the team.
Signing Mientkiewicz who brings fire to the club (and not a Burnitz-like guy) or even the "dump" of Morris.

That for me are proofs that the Pirates are truly building, and i think a lot of posters do feel the same..
and maybe posters who are closer to pittsburgh than me can explain that feeling even better..

hugo

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New Amsterdam was a Dutch settlement est. at the southern tip of Manhattan Island which served as seat of the colonial government in the New Dutch territory. It was renamed New York in honor of the then Duke of York.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:50 pm 
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Ollie wrote:
The difference is this time we are getting highly ranked prospects. There seems to be more of an agreement that these young guys are highly regarded. I think we're fortunate under the circumstances. The Red Sox gave away more than they wanted in their effort to unload Manny.

No they didn't. They really didn't need the guys they gave up.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:57 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
No they didn't. They really didn't need the guys they gave up.


Sox have real bullpen problems. Hansen was struggling but still appeared in a lot of games because he was better than anybody else the Sox had, and they looked at Hansen as a 9th inning guy, allowing Paplbon to be moved to the rotation next year.

The Sox liked Hansen a lot and did not want to give him up, per Remy (part of Sox broadcasting crew).


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Didn't here any pre-game with walk. Listened to Lanny. But during the beginning of the game Walk said he watched Kastner warm up and saw that he had good control of his fastball and was working on location of it during his pre-game. Also liked his change of speed.

Later Walk said that usually when they talk about a guy with control, or one who knows how to pitch, it means he has no fastball. But Walk said with some pleasure in his voice that that was not the case here. He had a nice fastball.

He only did the first five innings.

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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:17 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
He only did the first five innings.


5 innings of Bob Walk >>>>> 100 innings of other announcers.


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:06 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
No they didn't. They really didn't need the guys they gave up.


Yes they do. Not right now, not this year. But, they are an old team, getting creakier by the day.

This was young talent they needed to reload.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:24 am 
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While we analyze and get paralyzed by these discussions, I was reminded a heart wrenching story about how our PBC got to this point...A former Pirates scout reminded me of this true story tonite while watching the Hickory fall again...

One of those five year plans (i don't remember which one took a turn for the worst between 1999 and 2001...It all started when we took Bobby Bradley with our first pick...Bradley as we know blew out his arm after pitching deep into about a half dozen games in early april and may down here at the ripe old age of 18...This scout who quit after the draft because the Pirates promised then passed on Albert Pujols not once but 12 times before the Cards grabbed him...

See what kind of club we could have had...

Doumit...2nd in 1999...
2000...Burnett 1st...Chris Young 3rd, Bautista 20, Snell 26th, McLouth 25th
2001...JVB 1st...Jeremie Guthrie 2nd...Zach Duke 8th and Stephen Drew 11th...

Seems like if we had kept Ramirez and TRULY believed in scouting, signing and developing players...money aside...we'd have a rather formidable ballclub...and would not have had to have another overhaul this past week...

What would it be like....
Pujols 1st, Sanchez 2nd, Jack SS or Stephen Drew , Ramirez 3rd, Bay LF, Mclouth CF and Nady RF...

Young, Guthrie, Snell, Maholm, Gorzo, Duke,Capps, etc...

Seems like it all went wrong during those three critical years and the day we traded Ramirez...we've been trying to catch up and right the Bucco ship ever since...

For what it's worth...


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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:20 pm 
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We need to remember getting Freddy was a fluke that almost cost us losing Mike Gonzalez in the process too, thank goodness for Brandon Lyon being hurt and having to send him back to Boston

This team could have been a lot worse!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Other Views
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:39 pm 
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Huh ?!


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