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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:35 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
...the times I was right?

*crickets*

*crickets*

Really, dude, all you've convincingly demonstrated in the past year is that a) you don't have a very good grasp on sabermetric analysis and so dismiss it all out of hand; and b) you harbor some sort of schoolyard grudge against Sisyphus and Willton/Econo. And, oh yeah, NH.

Is it beyond the pale to consider that in his first year on the job NH has done little or nothing to be disagreed with, ideologically speaking — certainly nothing on the scale of his predecessors?

Don't worry, Elmer: when/if NH puts his foot in it for real, I trust the good posters on this board will not restrain themselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:11 am 
LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Elmer wrote:
...the times I was right?

*crickets*

*crickets*


Snell, Doumit, Paulino, Menky, Marte . . . I have no problem if you call me on my incorrect predictions. That's the consequences of voicing an opinion that proves to be incorrect. But I think pointing to ONLY those times and not the times I made good callls isn't very credible.

LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
[

Really, dude, all you've convincingly demonstrated in the past year is that a) you don't have a very good grasp on sabermetric analysis and so dismiss it all out of hand;


No, I don't TOTALLY understand it, but I understand it to a decent level. But I'm not worried about totally learning it because I don't have 100% faith in it. But your suggestion that I "dismiss it all out of hand" is 100% not true. I greatly value the info revealed by Sabermetrics, I just don't think it is the one-and-only way to evaluate players.

LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
b) you harbor some sort of schoolyard grudge against Sisyphus and Willton/Econo. And, oh yeah, NH.


Re: Sisy and WiltonEcono, I harbor no grudge, though I do need to defend myself against unbalanced opinions (pointing to my wrong predictions but ignoring my correct ones, for example). Also, I don't have much tolerance for people who always think they are right. What's the old saying? You can't learn anything until you admit you don't know everything, or something like that.

I also find it humorous that you refer to MY approach as that of a "schoolyard grudge" when talking about Willton/Econo - a guy who resorts to name calling, personal attacks. The dude even took a shot at my ex-wife, as if that has any relevance to baseball what-so-ever.

As for NH, that is 100% not true. I have NO grudge against him. I'm just not a NH apologist, like some on the board. I've praised him where it is deserved (Bay trade, Menky, sending down Paulino) and criticizing him on what I think is deserved (not upgrading a 90+ loss team, return on Nady), etc.

Just as with any GM, I'm forming my opinions based on what he does. I like some of what he does and dislike others ... that is no grudge.

LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
Don't worry, Elmer: when/if NH puts his foot in it for real, I trust the good posters on this board will not restrain themselves.


I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:20 am 
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I didn't even know you had an ex-wife, let alone took a shot at her...

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:35 am 
Willton wrote:
I didn't even know you had an ex-wife, let alone took a shot at her...


See your quote below about my wife (technically not my ex yet):

Willton wrote:

Given the amount of nitpicking this guy does to his favorite team, can you imagine Elmer actually having a wife? I'm not sure there's a woman out there that can be as perfect as Elmer would like.


Explain to me how is it OK to bring up the topic of another poster's wife on a baseball forum?


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:16 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
I didn't even know you had an ex-wife, let alone took a shot at her...


See your quote below about my wife (technically not my ex yet):

Willton wrote:

Given the amount of nitpicking this guy does to his favorite team, can you imagine Elmer actually having a wife? I'm not sure there's a woman out there that can be as perfect as Elmer would like.


Explain to me how is it OK to bring up the topic of another poster's wife on a baseball forum?

That comment was about how perfect someone or something apparently has to be in order to gain your approval. I don't believe that was taking a shot at your wife. If anything, it was taking a shot at you. I'm sorry about your matrimonial issues, but you need to grow a thicker skin.

By the way, your reference to my comment above is what Kojak was talking about when he said that you harbor grudges.

I'm done with this thread. This thread was supposed to be about recognizing the Pirates' deadline deals as good for the team's future, and Elmer tried to turn it into a petty "let's try to ruin Willton's credibility" mission. The most he succeeded in doing is harming his own reputation. Ballgame over.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:37 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
Hey, I think the Pirates do a great job marketing. They make millions of dollars....with a bad team... I wish I could invest in the team.


You can - buy a ticket.


Buying a ticket an investment?
Explain.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 12:42 pm 
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Willton wrote:
This thread was supposed to be about recognizing the Pirates' deadline deals as good for the team's future, and Elmer tried to turn it into a petty "let's try to ruin Willton's credibility" mission. The most he succeeded in doing is harming his own reputation. Ballgame over.


Ballgame is over, Wilton's reputation & credibility ruined by Elmer. I second the motion.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:04 pm 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
I didn't even know you had an ex-wife, let alone took a shot at her...


See your quote below about my wife (technically not my ex yet):

Willton wrote:

Given the amount of nitpicking this guy does to his favorite team, can you imagine Elmer actually having a wife? I'm not sure there's a woman out there that can be as perfect as Elmer would like.


Explain to me how is it OK to bring up the topic of another poster's wife on a baseball forum?

That comment was about how perfect someone or something apparently has to be in order to gain your approval. I don't believe that was taking a shot at your wife. If anything, it was taking a shot at you. I'm sorry about your matrimonial issues, but you need to grow a thicker skin.

By the way, your reference to my comment above is what Kojak was talking about when he said that you harbor grudges.

I'm done with this thread. This thread was supposed to be about recognizing the Pirates' deadline deals as good for the team's future, and Elmer tried to turn it into a petty "let's try to ruin Willton's credibility" mission. The most he succeeded in doing is harming his own reputation. Ballgame over.


So by pointing out how you brought another poster's wife into a baseball discussion, I harmed my own reputation? LOL.


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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:47 am 
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Elmer wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
So we're resorting to name calling again, are we? Sorry if my "goonish" accusations hurt your feelings.

Of course any Pirates move is subjective, as are all "good moves" and "bad moves." Two intelligent people could have completely different views on any baseball move.


True. For example, one guy might think Nyjer Morgan is better than Nate McLouth,or believe that Paul Maholm sux, while others might have a better grip on reality. Then later, when those folks disagree again, you have a pretty good idea which of them has an opinion that deserves a bit of respect.


I'll freely admit that I was wrong on McClouth and Maholm. Unlike you, I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. But if you're going to criticize me for being wrong, shouldn't you acknowledge when I was right too? You seem to have a tendency for selective objectivity too.

I admit it when I'm wrong. Most recently, I admitted that McLouth was much better than I thought he'd be. I thought that giving Park a shot in spring training wasn't a bad idea. Still do, but it clearly didn't work out.

Quote:
Why won't you talk about how I was high on Doumit since he first broke in? I was saying from Day 1 he should be catcher of the future. A lot of people on this board and other boards, up until May of this year or so, saw him as a first baseman, outfielder, bench player, or emergency catcher. I saw the value of switch-hitting power bat being regularly behind the plate and I saw his below average defensive skills improving.

Because I think a board full of attaboy posts is boring. You'll note that I wasn't arguing with you when you were pushing Doumit as the starting catcher. That's because I agreed with you.

Quote:
I also predicted that 2006 was a fluke for Joggin' Ronnie. I don't see lazy catchers making it in the majors for very long. When it appeared they had zero interest in Doumit as a catcher (which drove me nuts) and were behind Paulino, I begged for the team to sign another option. I had resigned myself to their Doumit mistake, but I still wanted someone to come in and at least challenge Paulino becauase I didn't believe he was suitable as a No. 1 Major League catcher. Paulino is back in the minors.

Here I'll disagree with you a bit. I think that Paulino has the ability to be a number one catcher in the majors. Whether we'll ever see that happen is certainly doubtful. He's not going to do it by being the world's fattest singles hitter, that's for sure.

Quote:
When Snell first broke into the bigs, I predicted he could be a serviceable to good major league starter. I was laughed at by fans who said his ceiling was the bullpen. They didn't care about his stuff, pitching ability or competitiveness ... because of his height, I was told, he'll always be in the pen. He's bad this year, but I think if you look at his career, I was certainly right in predicting that he'd be a serviceable to good major league starter.

You'll note that I wasn't one of the fans who was laughing, as I agreed with you. But be careful: we haven't exactly been proven right on this one.

Quote:
I correctly predicted that Kippy wouldn't ever become the ace that so many projected. I was thrilled when the team got Marte back for Mackowiak while some criticized that move. These a just a few that come to mind right now.

I'm not trying to brag here as I've certainly been wrong plenty, but calling me on my misses while ignoring everything else is completely yellow.

Explain to me how it is OK to call me on my misses but not acknowledge the times I was right? Is that credible? I'm no Billy Beane, but I DO know baseball my friend. I also am not afraid to voice my opinion, and my ego isn't such that I'm afraid to admit when I was wrong.

Since you've just called me a coward I have no problem pointing out that your ego sure does require a lot of stroking when you are right.

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 Post subject: Re: Joe Sheehan: Pirates Win at the Deadline
PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:52 am 
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Elmer wrote:
So by pointing out how you brought another poster's wife into a baseball discussion, I harmed my own reputation? LOL.

If he had actually brought up your wife, then you might have a point. He didn't, so you don't.

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