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 Post subject: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:16 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:26 pm 
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If Gammons says it, that's good enough for me. That dorky little guy has forgotten more about baseball than I'll ever know.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:29 pm 
VanSlick wrote:
If Gammons says it, that's good enough for me. That dorky little guy has forgotten more about baseball than I'll ever know.


I want to hear more takes, but from what I've heard, this deal blows the Nady deal out of the water. I like it.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:53 pm 
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We couldnt have gotten this much with trading bay in a standered one on one team trade. Its a great deal for the bucs.

The problem is they are now really loaded at positons like 3rd and outfield

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Tim Kurkjian just said the Pirates nixed the deal with Boston and the Marlins because they felt they weren't getting enough. Kudos to NH for holding his ground. That is a good sign.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:11 pm 
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VanSlick wrote:
If Gammons says it, that's good enough for me. That dorky little guy has forgotten more about baseball than I'll ever know.


After Mario Lemieux, Peter Gammons is my sports God. What he says is good for me.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:11 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
The problem is they are now really loaded at positons like 3rd and outfield



Yeah, its a real problem. I just hate being loaded at some positions. We should dump some of the bums. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:12 pm 
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Gammons echoed Kurkjian's sentiment saying the Marlins were offering Hermida, Chris Coghlan and a relief pitcher. So NH said not enough. Then the Red Sox threw in Moss and Hansen and the Dodgers picked their two guys.

Awesome!

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:18 pm 
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Ok be sarcastic but they are OVERloaded with prospects in the outfield and 3rd base. What happens do they just give up on pearce?

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:35 pm 
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Competition shows what players have the nuts to step up and produce in a big league level.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:37 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Competition shows what players have the nuts to step up and produce in a big league level.



Competition? What an odd word to see associated with our beloved Buccos.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:37 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
We couldnt have gotten this much with trading bay in a standered one on one team trade. Its a great deal for the bucs.

The problem is they are now really loaded at positons like 3rd and outfield


Being loaded is not a problem...its easier to fill if someone struggles

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:41 pm 
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The only problem with the competition theory is that in a game like baseball it's tough to tell guys to just go out and compete for a job because you can't accurately judge them based on what, spring training performance? It's going to be difficult to properly evaluate some of them if they never get extended playing time. It is hard to see what they will do with Pearce now with Nate, Cutch and Moss probably all ahead of him on the depth chart. Plus Tabata in the wings, who knows where he fits. And at 3rd, either Alvarez (if signed) or Walker. Although I do recall seeing that LaRoche could play some second base, which we could open up by dealing Freddy.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:27 pm 
Ryann wrote:
We couldnt have gotten this much with trading bay in a standered one on one team trade. Its a great deal for the bucs.

The problem is they are now really loaded at positons like 3rd and outfield


I think this post is reflective of how our expectations of the Pirates have changed through the years. Being "really loaded" at any positions is NOT a problem whatsoever. There is nothing bad that can come from having multiple good players at every position. That is what you NEED.

If you have 2 good third basemen, you play the better one and then you have a good backup. How is that in any way bad?


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:41 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Ryann wrote:
We couldnt have gotten this much with trading bay in a standered one on one team trade. Its a great deal for the bucs.

The problem is they are now really loaded at positons like 3rd and outfield


I think this post is reflective of how our expectations of the Pirates have changed through the years. Being "really loaded" at any positions is NOT a problem whatsoever. There is nothing bad that can come from having multiple good players at every position. That is what you NEED.

If you have 2 good third basemen, you play the better one and then you have a good backup. How is that in any way bad?

Or you deal one of them to fill a hole. It is impossible to have too much talent at one position as long as you trust your own ability to assess talent and you aren't afraid to make a deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:43 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Ryann wrote:
We couldnt have gotten this much with trading bay in a standered one on one team trade. Its a great deal for the bucs.

The problem is they are now really loaded at positons like 3rd and outfield


I think this post is reflective of how our expectations of the Pirates have changed through the years. Being "really loaded" at any positions is NOT a problem whatsoever. There is nothing bad that can come from having multiple good players at every position. That is what you NEED.

If you have 2 good third basemen, you play the better one and then you have a good backup. How is that in any way bad?

Or you deal one of them to fill a hole. It is impossible to have too much talent at one position as long as you trust your own ability to assess talent and you aren't afraid to make a deal.


Exactly. You move one to fill a hole, you have a good backup, you have a good stick on the bench, you move a guy's position ... there is zero downside. You need as much talent at as many positions as possible to win in any sport.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Elmer wrote:

Exactly. You move one to fill a hole, you have a good backup, you have a good stick on the bench, you move a guy's position ... there is zero downside. You need as much talent at as many positions as possible to win in any sport.


True, but how are other teams going to see the trade value of a young unproven guy who rarely gets a chance to play much? They could end up a stud but we would never find out. For example with Pearce, if he ends up being the 4th guy in our outfield, we will never know what his value is if he never gets to play everyday. It would be one thing if we already knew what we had in a guy, but that's hard to figure out unless they play, and not just a month audition. It will make for some tough decisions for management, and it presents the possibility for them to screw up. So while having a lot of guys at certain positions is definitely not a bad thing per se, it presents certain conundrums for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Pirates4real wrote:
Elmer wrote:

Exactly. You move one to fill a hole, you have a good backup, you have a good stick on the bench, you move a guy's position ... there is zero downside. You need as much talent at as many positions as possible to win in any sport.


True, but how are other teams going to see the trade value of a young unproven guy who rarely gets a chance to play much?


The Pirates just traded Bay, Nady and Marte for a bunch of young uproven guys who rarely had a chance to play much. Teams do that sort of thing every year.

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They could end up a stud but we would never find out. For example with Pearce, if he ends up being the 4th guy in our outfield, we will never know what his value is if he never gets to play everyday. It would be one thing if we already knew what we had in a guy, but that's hard to figure out unless they play, and not just a month audition. It will make for some tough decisions for management, and it presents the possibility for them to screw up. So while having a lot of guys at certain positions is definitely not a bad thing per se, it presents certain conundrums for sure.


The Pirates management has had few opportunities to make tough decisions for the last 16 years. Believe me, if these guys work out, I trust the same guy who was smart enough to go and get them to make the right decisions when it's time to choose between them.

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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:49 am 
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Pirates4real wrote:
It is hard to see what they will do with Pearce now with Nate, Cutch and Moss probably all ahead of him on the depth chart. Plus Tabata in the wings, who knows where he fits. And at 3rd, either Alvarez (if signed) or Walker. Although I do recall seeing that LaRoche could play some second base, which we could open up by dealing Freddy.


See, here's the deal. The outfield for the rest of the year is probably McLouth, Pearce, and Moss. The poorest performer from that bunch probably becomes your reserve outfielder next year when McCutchen is ready. If all 3 of them perform well through August and September, then come find me and we will talk about people not getting a chance. But they all have their chance.

As for 3rd, Alvarez won't be here until 2010 at the earliest, nor will Walker. We have plenty of time to make our decisions. Everyone will get a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: Peter Gammons just said
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:04 am 
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Quote:
The Pirates management has had few opportunities to make tough decisions for the last 16 years. Believe me, if these guys work out, I trust the same guy who was smart enough to go and get them to make the right decisions when it's time to choose between them.


Well said Sis...

I know we lost our best hitter in Bay, gave up a guy having a career year, and a very solid reliever in Marte, but did we get a little better?

All depending on performance but now we have:

a guy like Moss, lefty with pull power to take over in LF

LaRoche who is said to be a patient hitter with power

Hansen who fits in real well in the new bullpen(Major power pitcher who can't find the plate)

Karstens, labeled a Fogg type pitcher and at this point the way our starting pitching has been, a "Fogg" type consistent pitcher looks pretty darn good to me

Ohlendorf and/or McCutchen that are far better than the JVB options

I think that we could see some improvement in the club by September, provided LaRoche and Dumatrait get back, Sanchez and LaRoche continue the hot hitting they were both enjoying, a returning to form (of any kind) of Ian Snell.

Lots of ifs but at least something to ponder

I really was disappointed to see Bay go yesterday, but the return value is far more than DL would have ever got, Also I heard some jaggoff on ESPN radio say that the commissioner should move the Pirates out of Pittsburgh(I wish I could have gotten my hands around his throat) because we keep salary dumping. How do people that don't have a freakin clue about our situation get to have the loudest voice sometimes. Drives me nuts


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