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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:49 pm 
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The Pirates' return from the Red Sox, sources say, is the last holdup in the deal. The Pirates are seeking an "appropriate return for an All-Star caliber left fielder" -- and one who is affordable at $5.75 million this season and $7.5 million in 2009.


http://msn.foxsports.com/other/story/8391628/Red-Sox,-Marlins,-Pirates-talk-three-way-trade?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=3498

I love this stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Good for Neal!

He's doing things the way they should be done and not the way bh or Smizik want it done.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:51 pm 
Jeremy wrote:
Good for Neal!

He's doing things the way they should be done and not the way bh or Smizik want it done.


If he is holding them up for higher return, then hats off to him. They've been saying all along they don't "need" to trade bay, and will do so only if "blown away." If true to their word, and he's not blown away, then NO BAY FOR YOU.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:53 pm 
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I'm thrilled Pittsburgh finally has someone in charge with some balls.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:54 pm 
Jeremy wrote:
I'm thrilled Pittsburgh finally has someone in charge with some balls.


We have to see if it actually unfolds that way before we anoint his grand testicles. 4 hours my friend ....


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Here are two more rumors from NBCSports.com


The Red Sox are apparently doing everything they can to ditch Manny Ramirez by this afternoon's non-waiver trading deadline. It's looking likely that he'll head to the Marlins. Boston would end up with reliever John Grabow and coveted slugger Jason Bay from Pittsburgh and the Pirates would get Marlins right fielder Jeremy Hermida, pitcher Ryan Tucker, and low-minors slugger Mike Stanton from Florida. Still, though, the Phillies and Dodgers are supposedly still trying to get Ramirez with the Phillies reportedly offering Brett Myers, Jason Werth, and cash to get the guy who has been pals with Phillies manager Charlie Manuel since they both worked in Cleveland together. L.A. would supposedly include Matt Kemp in the deal.


If this Manny madness doesn’t work out, rumor has it that Jason Bay could be headed to the Rays. Other teams are asking about him, but Tampa Bay is supposedly the furthest along in the offer process. If Bay gets moved anywhere other than Boston, it’s a sign that the rumored Manny deal has gone south


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:25 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:

You're saying that the Giants could make a play for Bay?


We are talking about Brian Sabean, here. He is probably making a play for Nyjer. :lol:


Don't lose sight of the fact that he played us last year around this time.

And don't lose sight of who was in charge last time.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:27 pm 
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This is from MLB.com

Pirates could be holdup in major deadline deal
With less than four hours remaining until Thursday's 4 p.m. ET, the Pirates, Red Sox and Marlins continue to talk about a potential blockbuster deal that would center around Manny Ramirez going to Florida, Jeremy Hermida going to Pittsburgh and Jason Bay going to Boston.

However, while baseball sources on Wednesday night expressed optimism that a deal would get done, there appear to be a number of critical details holding up this deal. The Pirates are not expected to back down on their demands, which would include Hermida and at least two top prospects coming their way. With the club in a financial state where they don't have to deal Bay, management will not pull the trigger unless they get what they want.

In fact, numerous reports have the Pirates being the hold up in getting this deal done. It's belief that Pittsburgh has tossed around the names of Jed Lowire (Boston shortstop), Mike Stanton (Florida top prospect outfielder) and Ryan Tucker (Florida pitcher).

With Tampa Bay also still coveting Bay, the Pirates could very well be using that leverage to try and up an offer from both sides. The Rays still have a number of prospects the Pirates are interested in, and if they fear the Red Sox landing Bay, Tampa Bay could improve its offer.

While Bay's name continues to be the most prominent one in Pittsburgh, lefty John Grabow would also likely be on the move. Baseball sources have confirmed two different possibilities. One would have Grabow and Bay going to Boston, while the other would have Grabow going to Florida.

Again, Grabow -- like Bay -- is under the Pirates' control for another year, so the urgency to have to deal him now is not pressing.

-- Jenifer Langosch


Could it be that our GM knows what he's doing?


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:28 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Argentum wrote:
Don't lose sight of the fact that he played us last year around this time.

And don't lose sight of who was in charge last time.


Well, duhhhhh.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:30 pm 
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Regarding the value to the Marlins.

1. Manny would draw in a predominantly hispanic neighborhood
2. Manny would give them some ooomph in the playoffs
3. Marlins like to make 1 year runs, and rebuild.
4. Manny as UFA gets you how many draft pick compensations in return when you don't offer the option?
5. Florida is pretty good drafting players.
6. Did I mention Manny would bring in lots of seats down the stretch, and make some jack?


ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:35 pm 
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4. Two first round picks.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:45 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
4. Two first round picks.



This is a little misleading. They get a compensation pick between rounds 1 and 2, and they will also get a pick in either the 1st or 2nd round. If the team that signs Manny has a 1st round pick outside of the top 15, they get that team's 1st round pick. However, if that team has a top-15 pick, then FLA would get a second round pick (in addition to the pick between the 1st and 2nd round).

To obtain these picks, Florida would have to decline Manny's option, offer him arbitration, and have Manny decline arbitration. Then, Manny must sign with another team before the start of spring training. If, for any reason, he doesn't sign until after that point (excessive contract demands, other available options such as Texiera, etc) Florida would get nothing. Alternatively, FLA could get screwed if they offered Manny arbitration and he accepted it (very unlikely, but Manny's thought process isn't what I would label "logical").


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:46 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
4. Two first round picks.



This is a little misleading. They get a compensation pick between rounds 1 and 2, and they will also get a pick in either the 1st or 2nd round. If the team that signs Manny has a 1st round pick outside of the top 15, they get that team's 1st round pick. However, if that team has a top-15 pick, then FLA would get a second round pick (in addition to the pick between the 1st and 2nd round).

To obtain these picks, Florida would have to decline Manny's option, offer him arbitration, and have Manny decline arbitration. Then, Manny must sign with another team before the start of spring training. If, for any reason, he doesn't sign until after that point (excessive contract demands, other available options such as Texiera, etc) Florida would get nothing. Alternatively, FLA could get screwed if they offered Manny arbitration and he accepted it (very unlikely, but Manny's thought process isn't what I would label "logical").



Fair enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:06 pm 
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It sounds Huntingdon is playing the power game well. Pushing for max he can get. He is keeping other teams on call if he think they will throw a better deal then the Bo-Sox Marlins combo.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:16 pm 
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The three way deal might be dead.


Losing steam?
After all the talks the Red Sox have had with the Marlins and Pirates the last two days, could it be that Manny Ramirez winds up starting in left field for the Red Sox Friday night?

The latest news from ESPN.com's Peter Gammons: "A source close to the three-way negotiations involving Manny Ramirez says the deal is close to dead. Florida has reportedly asked Boston for a cash outlay beyond the $7 million to cover Ramirez's contract, in addition to two prospects. That essentially would add up to the Red Sox trading Ramirez, $9 million and two prospects for Jason Bay."

The Pirates could deal Bay somewhere else -- Tampa Bay has been mentioned and Jayson Stark of ESPN.com is now citing the Blue Jays -- or just hang on to him.

Keep in mind that in recent years, the Red Sox have never been shy about pulling away from blockbuster deals when the price simply became too much. Most dramatically, the Sox had a Ramirez for Alex Rodriguez mega-swap lined up in December, 2003, and pulled out of that when their proposed restructuring of A-Rod's contract was turned down by the Players Association. More recently, Theo Epstein didn't trade for Johan Santana this winter because the asking price of talented young players was simply too much.

T-minus three hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:28 pm 
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This thing is all over the place. Who to believe? This is from 11:30........

Quote:
The Manny Ramirez trade appears to be moving closer to completion.

"It sounds like things are taking off and Pittsburgh is getting what they are looking for," said an executive who has been in contact with the clubs involved.


http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8398506

I'm with Bucco Boy, I think this will end up with Bay staying in Pittsburgh.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:35 pm 
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The blurb that Argentum posted notes that neither Stanton nor Tucker would be included:

"Two prominent Marlins prospects who have been mentioned — Class AA right-hander Ryan Tucker and Class A outfielder Michael Stanton — will not be traded, multiple sources said."

That is probably the hold-up. Pirates may be saying that they need one of these guys to make the deal go through.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:36 pm 
Bucfan wrote:
The blurb that Argentum posted notes that neither Stanton nor Tucker would be included:

"Two prominent Marlins prospects who have been mentioned — Class AA right-hander Ryan Tucker and Class A outfielder Michael Stanton — will not be traded, multiple sources said."

That is probably the hold-up. Pirates may be saying that they need one of these guys to make the deal go through.


At least one. Props to NH for not making that deal. Shame on him if he trades Bay without getting at least one.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:45 pm 
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From a Bosox poster at a forum I've been lurking around:

Quote:
According to the Pittsburgh post Gazette, the focus is off the Pirates as they are liking the prospects coming their way. Florida now wants Boston to pay $9 million for Manny


http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/default.aspx

That $9 million is on top of paying the rest of Manny's salary. Boston is getting squeezed pretty good it seems.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 2:53 pm 
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I'm done trying to track this mess!


Quote:
Posted by Jayson Stark

Yet another official with one of these three teams says the Manny-Bay deal is dead. In the aftermath, the teams involved seem unsure of what happened. The Pirates are blaming the Marlins. The Marlins are blaming the Pirates. And the Red Sox aren't too happy with either of them.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3512956&name=mlb_trade_deadline


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