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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:51 am 
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Well, I know how I feel. It stinks. I still can't see destroying the best outfield in the majors for some guys who "might be" someday.

But, there's no point in being excited, one way or the other. It hasn't happened, yet, if it does at all.

Ramirez will still want as much as Florida's entire payroll, plus he can stop the whole deal by just saying "no". Those are big obstacles.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:04 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Well, I know how I feel. It stinks. I still can't see destroying the best outfield in the majors for some guys who "might be" someday.

But, there's no point in being excited, one way or the other. It hasn't happened, yet, if it does at all.

Ramirez will still want as much as Florida's entire payroll, plus he can stop the whole deal by just saying "no". Those are big obstacles.

One of the best outfields in the majors won't do you much good when you have one of the worst infields and no pitching depth, at the major and minor league levels. As should be self-evident by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:14 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Well, I know how I feel. It stinks. I still can't see destroying the best outfield in the majors for some guys who "might be" someday.

I agree. I had a dream: Opening Day 2009, Bay, McLouth and Nady, all pulling together, raising the "Best Outfield in the Majors - 2008" pennant high above PNC Park! It would have made all those years of frustration worth it. And maybe with the Best Outfield in the Majors intact for another season, we could have gotten the coveted "Above .500 - 2009" pennant for next year. That would have really been special. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:27 am 
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The Deal is good. The buc's must stock the minor league system with guys who can play. The Pirates biggest problem is that if they lose a pitcher to an injury they dont have an answer. The Indy Indians lose 3 out of every 4 games. The Buc's have 3 pitchers on the MLB roster that wouldnt play for anyone else.

The Pirates will not win a division ever with the current farm system in place now. You cant have a guy like Herrera starting every 5th day. Stregthen the farm system now. add a few moderate free agentsin the off season and you can be every bit as good next year as you are now.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:52 am 
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I totally agree..

The PBC has the money to get some upgrades by free agency, piling up your minor league stock and some youngsters
in the outfield will come to the majors.

The Offense won't be that much weaker if a hermida comes (he has the same number as the "normal" Nady) Mclouth will fill in on bay's spot in the line-up (how many rbi's will he get then), and mccutchen will open.. would like to see that.. believe in the few good youngsters we already have..

I love Jack Wilson, but an offensive upgrade at short for jack would be more interesting, sanchez will bounce back, Laroche is still believe in, or we have Pearce, or even keep Douggie... (the way he is hitting now, and leadership)
and 3rd u could spent some money on.. and ryan will get better 4 sure..

and the pitching group must be stronger already with mccutcheon, ohlendorfer and karstens.. and when the bos/fla/pit
will succeed, some tallented prospects will come over.. wow.. it looks way better then now..
even a trade with tampa would be interesting

and how about alvarez.. we must sign him, no matter what... I could live with 2009, even if that cost us or
beloved Bay, Wilson etc etc

i rather have a questionable 2009 and smile to the future, then sitting on this team, i agree it is after all what we were
used to an nice season (superb offense, but pitching is the KEY word)

but hey.. i do wear wooden shoes, live in a windmill and loving amsterdam!!

cheerio

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:26 am 
PiratesFan.from.NL wrote:
I totally agree..

The PBC has the money to get some upgrades by free agency, piling up your minor league stock and some youngsters
in the outfield will come to the majors.

The Offense won't be that much weaker if a hermida comes (he has the same number as the "normal" Nady) Mclouth will fill in on bay's spot in the line-up (how many rbi's will he get then), and mccutchen will open.. would like to see that.. believe in the few good youngsters we already have..

I love Jack Wilson, but an offensive upgrade at short for jack would be more interesting, sanchez will bounce back, Laroche is still believe in, or we have Pearce, or even keep Douggie... (the way he is hitting now, and leadership)
and 3rd u could spent some money on.. and ryan will get better 4 sure..

and the pitching group must be stronger already with mccutcheon, ohlendorfer and karstens.. and when the bos/fla/pit
will succeed, some tallented prospects will come over.. wow.. it looks way better then now..
even a trade with tampa would be interesting

and how about alvarez.. we must sign him, no matter what... I could live with 2009, even if that cost us or
beloved Bay, Wilson etc etc

i rather have a questionable 2009 and smile to the future, then sitting on this team, i agree it is after all what we were
used to an nice season (superb offense, but pitching is the KEY word)

but hey.. i do wear wooden shoes, live in a windmill and loving amsterdam!!

cheerio


I am with you guys. I'd much rather see them keep Baby, but if they are going to trade him, they BETTER get elite prospects. Not Ross Oldendorffs.

If this is true:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08213/900835-63.stm

And the Pirates are dissatisfied with the list of prospects in the 3-way, and if Tampa isn't offering its top guys, I hope NH does the right thing and pull Bay.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:32 am 
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Boston's got to get this deal done...Manny's 36...Lowell is past his prime..Ortiz is sliding...Varitek too...Pedrioia is not a .320 hitter...Ellsbury is lighthitting and overrated...I think we see and hear ESPN (Endless Sox Propaganda Network) talk about Boston so much they begin to take on Godlike status in the baseball world...(remember these guys were a few outs from being eliminated by CLeveland last year in the playoffs)...check out their age too...these guys will by nature start to decline (some kind of law of diminishing return)...

Really if the Bucs want to build up their minor league system and lord knows they need to...then Boston, Florida and Tampa seem to have the best P prospects...Wonder if NH has looked into the SF Giants minor league system...they are stacked too...


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:34 am 
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Scouts who have come through here have said that SF is the Dolly Parton of pitching prospects !


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:42 am 
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mr. crawdad wrote:
Scouts who have come through here have said that SF is the Dolly Parton of pitching prospects !

Artificially enhanced?


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:42 am 
burghermeister wrote:
mr. crawdad wrote:
Scouts who have come through here have said that SF is the Dolly Parton of pitching prospects !

Artificially enhanced?


The prospects are old but used to have talent?


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:59 am 
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This is driving me nuts. The Pirates don't excite anyone on the field very often, but this trade deadline is awesome.

I'm for trading as I've said before. When it happens, if it happens, I'm sure there will be many who say they are done with the Pirates because... but this is the path they must take. I'm tired of waiting at this computer, and have other things to do. Somehow I can't seem to walk away right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:04 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
This is driving me nuts. The Pirates don't excite anyone on the field very often, but this trade deadline is awesome.


I agree. This Bay deal, or lack thereof, is killing me. In an exciting way though!


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:05 pm 
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tennis08tarheels wrote:
Michael Stanton is 18 years old.


Bucfan: "Never mind."

Bucfan 2: "Other than that, how did you like the play [post], Mrs. Lincoln?"

Bucfan 3: "Bucfan and math - passing acquaintances."


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:11 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Florida seems to be giving up a lot for a two month rental. They've already said they won't look to extend Manny after the season. This seems almost too good to be true.


That is why I do not get this trade, at all. Florida is not going to pay Ramirez $20 million per year to remain with the Marlins. So what is their plan? Trade everything for this season's playoff push?

That would make them the anti-Rays, who hemm and haw about trading any legitimate prospect, even for a very productive and proven OF'er with 35 HR power and who is under contract through 2009.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:23 pm 
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This is the reason I said the Rays won't make the playoffs. They're thinking too much like the Twins and A's at this point to be a serious playoff team.


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:24 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
Steve1118 wrote:
Well, I know how I feel. It stinks. I still can't see destroying the best outfield in the majors for some guys who "might be" someday.

I agree. I had a dream: Opening Day 2009, Bay, McLouth and Nady, all pulling together, raising the "Best Outfield in the Majors - 2008" pennant high above PNC Park! It would have made all those years of frustration worth it. And maybe with the Best Outfield in the Majors intact for another season, we could have gotten the coveted "Above .500 - 2009" pennant for next year. That would have really been special. :roll:

I nominate this for Post of the Month! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:28 pm 
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SF is STACKED in pitching (not artificial)...their A ball team led the minors in ERA last year and the whole group moved up...last year's #1 pick Madison Bumgarner was in our backyard and the Bucs wiffed on Weiters or he for Moskos...

WOULDN"T BE SURPRISED IF SOME UNKNOWN TEAM SWOOPED IN AND SWEPT NH OFF HIS FEET WITH AN OFFER...

I still think Boston is desperate because they know their window is closing...


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:33 pm 
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mr. crawdad wrote:
SF is STACKED in pitching (not artificial)...their A ball team led the minors in ERA last year and the whole group moved up...last year's #1 pick Madison Bumgarner was in our backyard and the Bucs wiffed on Weiters or he for Moskos...

WOULDN"T BE SURPRISED IF SOME UNKNOWN TEAM SWOOPED IN AND SWEPT NH OFF HIS FEET WITH AN OFFER...

I still think Boston is desperate because they know their window is closing...



You're saying that the Giants could make a play for Bay?


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:

You're saying that the Giants could make a play for Bay?


We are talking about Brian Sabean, here. He is probably making a play for Nyjer. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Trade 3 way interesting. (Pirates, Marlins, Red Sox?)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 12:45 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Jeremy wrote:

You're saying that the Giants could make a play for Bay?


We are talking about Brian Sabean, here. He is probably making a play for Nyjer. :lol:


Don't lose sight of the fact that he played us last year around this time.


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