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 Post subject: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:08 pm 
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First let me say that I love the guy. He's really been great all year. Much better then expected by almost everyone. Does that scare you?

Is it a concern that Nate, a relatively small player is powering so many home runs. He bounced one into the river last night. That's a lot of power for him. Do you think he could be using? I sure hope not but I'm sure people suspect Hamilton because of his amazing pop. What about McLouth?

Does that worry any of you?

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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:14 pm 
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Not really. His head still fits inside PNC Park. :D

Really, it looks to me that he, like Bonds and a couple others I've seen, simply has that beautiful, compact swing that can make a ball go a long way... without any help from Balco.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:24 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
First let me say that I love the guy. He's really been great all year. Much better then expected by almost everyone. Does that scare you?

Is it a concern that Nate, a relatively small player is powering so many home runs. He bounced one into the river last night. That's a lot of power for him. Do you think he could be using? I sure hope not but I'm sure people suspect Hamilton because of his amazing pop. What about McLouth?

Does that worry any of you?

For God's sake, must every homerun hitter be suspected of using steroids? I'm getting really sick of the McCarthyism that goes on about steroids in baseball.

No, I am not worried about McLouth usings steroids because there's no actual evidence of any steroid use by him. He hasn't failed a drug test, and last I checked, his trainer was not Stan Conte. Slugging is not evidence of using. Until someone comes up with some actual evidence that McLouth is using, there's no reason to be concerned about this.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:41 pm 
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No. ZM pretty much sums it up. He generates so much torque through his hips, the balls just zoom off of his bat. He doesn't really muscle his way through at bats. Short and compact.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:51 pm 
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Sounds very similar to the defense of Barry Bonds who has never failed a test either. No proof yet most think he is a user.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:59 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Sounds very similar to the defense of Barry Bonds who has never failed a test either. No proof yet most think he is a user.


I'm not defending Bonds. I think Bonds used, however I also think that Bonds would have hit 500+ HRs without chemicals. A good swing is a good swing.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:30 pm 
While it's certainly possible -- I think anyone would be foolish to just assume no in this day and age -- I personally don't think McClouth is using.

His swing does have a compact, "burst" type aspect to it, as others above have pointed out. Also, he doesn't have any of the classic appearance traits that flat out come with roids.

I've been around many MANY steroid users in my time ... i generally have a good eye for it. I don't see it with McClouth.

Also, for what it's worth, whether a person has failed a test or not isn't all that relevant in determining whether they use or not. One doesn't necessarily reflect the other. There are masking drugs which make tests obsolete, not to mention that accurately testing for HGH is essentially impossible.


Last edited by Elmer on Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Sounds very similar to the defense of Barry Bonds who has never failed a test either. No proof yet most think he is a user.

There is evidence against Bonds that points to him using. There is no such evidence against McLouth. Until you find some, you're crying "wolf."

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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:50 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
There are masking drugs which make tests obsolete, not to mention that accurately testing for HGH is essentially impossible.


Sorry, this last statement is untrue. The correct statement would be that there are no available urine tests for HGH that have been validated, and the Players Union will not allow the use of highly accurate, thoroughly evaluated blood tests that would otherwise be available.

I'm not taking a position on whether or not blood tests should be done, just stating the fact that HGH can accurately be measured, despite what you may have heard.

And Elmer...you say that you see no physical signs of usage by Nate...does that mean you've checked him for testicular atrophy??!! :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :lol:

EDIT: I meant to add that there are urine HGH tests now in development and in fact I just read an evil press release from an evil pharmaceutical company that they are prepared to release an evil HGH urine test that supposedly has been independently validated. I bet they are counting their evil money as we speak.

EDIT EDIT: The use of the word evil was entirely sarcastic.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:18 pm 
Yes, I should have clarified the "urine vs. blood" point.

Also, this isn't about what I have "heard" ... this is about what I KNOW from having seen it with my own eyes. I know people who have taken both roids and HGH, been tested by the NCAA, and passed thanks to masking drugs.

I don't know the specifics of MLB's testing, but the NCAA's testing procedures are quite thorough, yet there are still holes. People slip through all the time. I have a hard time believing baseball's are more thorough.

Regarding Nate's nuts, I haven't checked them out, though I bet some on this board would pay good money to do just that. But based on what is visible, his build, head, skin ... I don't see any classic steroid signs/symptoms that I've seen in people I personally know are on steroids.


Last edited by Elmer on Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:19 pm 
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BBF wrote:
EDIT EDIT: The use of the word evil was entirely sarcastic.


Ohhhhh realllllly!




Image


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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:40 pm 
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The comedian Carrot Top put it best when he was on one of the late night comedy shows and he was making fun of people who were riled up over steroids in baseball. He was imitating them, "dude, steroids are so wrong!", and then he simulated toking a joint.


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 Post subject: Re: Nate's Performance
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:17 pm 
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The responses have pretty well answered the question. To those responses, I would add:

    For the first time, Nate is getting regular at bats.
    Regular at bats result in a more consistent swing.
    Nate exhibited power in the minors and power last year.
    The regular at bats translate into more consistent power.
    His HR output can therefore be explained by his consistent play and regular at bats.
    Nate does not show hair loss, acne, muscle development, etc. - the signs or steroid use.
    Therefore, the evidence does not support a presumption that his power is related to drug use.


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