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 Post subject: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:55 pm 
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http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/pbc/

By the way, this blog is awesome.

I actually found somebody that has heard of Watson too...

And can Tony Watson, pictured at right, get here fast enough?

http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs ... ageIndex=2

Scroll half way down...


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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:56 pm 
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Lefty or righty?


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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:12 pm 
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lefty...

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb ... pid=453265


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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:11 pm 
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I think they are going to see right now if Pearce has it. It's his job to win or lose in August and September.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:25 pm 
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He got a hit tonight he didn't look bad , will c i hope he could start getting on base consistently also Bay should b a Pirate for a long time , this teams goal should be to finish 500 with out getting rid of every player.


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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:36 pm 
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cbk87 wrote:
He got a hit tonight he didn't look bad , will c i hope he could start getting on base consistently also Bay should b a Pirate for a long time , this teams goal should be to finish 500 with out getting rid of every player.

This team's goal should be to contend for a playoff spot in most years, not mediocrity.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:52 pm 
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Your right but lets start by having a over 500 team first and then making the playoffs and what im saying ther not going to make the playoffs with a bunch of unproven prospects


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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:32 am 
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cbk87 wrote:
Your right but lets start by having a over 500 team first and then making the playoffs and what im saying ther not going to make the playoffs with a bunch of unproven prospects


Y'know, it's worth pointing out that a high percentage of the game's elite players started as unproven prospects. All of them, in fact.

I'm perfectly fine with the idea of Nate and Doumit being the veteran presence on this ballclub for the next few years.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:00 am 
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cbk87 wrote:
Your right but lets start by having a over 500 team first and then making the playoffs and what im saying ther not going to make the playoffs with a bunch of unproven prospects

They're not going to the playoffs with this bunch either. I'll take the high-upside unproven prospects.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:54 am 
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cbk87 wrote:
Your right but lets start by having a over 500 team first and then making the playoffs and what im saying ther not going to make the playoffs with a bunch of unproven prospects

They were never going to make the playoffs with the guys they already have, either. You want to sacrifice the future to reach .500 now? Then you should have been screaming when the Bucs canned Littlefield, as you both shared the same strategy. I think Wilbur Miller put it best:

http://onlybucs.org/home/article.php/20080726182456380

"If you want to know what the result would be if Huntington were to hold off addressing these problems, just check out this year’s Altoona Curve. That team would be your 2010 Pirates. Imagine how good a 47-58 AA team would be two years later in the majors."

Keep in mind that Nady and Bay were once "unproven prospects. Remember that a lot of folks were still calling McLouth and Doumit unproven going into this season. If the Pirates are ever going to contend they need to get young players with the potential to become outstanding players. Some of them will work out, and some of them won't, but sticking with a team that has already proven itself to be a consistent loser just guarantees more losing in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:57 pm 
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That is an interesting post, assessing future Pirate teams against the record of the AA team today.

It seems that was not so in vogue a couple of years ago when the AA team was winning everything, in fact the minors were winning just about everything.

At that time, it was said by the same in the know's that a winning minor league record didn't translate or wouldn't translate into the big club.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:21 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
That is an interesting post, assessing future Pirate teams against the record of the AA team today.

It seems that was not so in vogue a couple of years ago when the AA team was winning everything, in fact the minors were winning just about everything.

At that time, it was said by the same in the know's that a winning minor league record didn't translate or wouldn't translate into the big club.

ZM

I doubt that was what was said. I think that it was said that a winning minor league record didn't necessarily translate into a winning big club down the road, which is absolutely true, as events have shown.

The current Altoona team is 49-59. The roster is full of guys who are old for the level. There isn't a single guy in the rotation with an ERA under 4.00. There is no sign of power and little sign of speed or on base ability in the lineup. You think that doesn't bode ill for the next 3-4 years?

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:24 pm 
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The minors was bare....We used all the resources up with Maholm, Gorzo, Duke, Snell, Doumit, Bautista, and McLouth in the past 3 or 4 years, with only McCutchen and Walker left...Double A Altoona has nothing because DL wasnt smart enough to stock it back up again...A good number of those guys at Single A this year will be there next year more than likely

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:19 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
[
I doubt that was what was said.


Since you weren't around, you don't know. And, yes it was exactly what was said.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:05 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
[
I doubt that was what was said.


Since you weren't around, you don't know. And, yes it was exactly what was said.

ZM

If so, then somebody was overstating his argument.

So, do you think that the elderly, 49-59 Altoona Curve bodes well for the future of the Pirates?

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 1:54 am 
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No, I do not.

But, I was also one who said that the AA team of McClouth, Doumit, Grabow, Bennett, Snell, Duke, etc. would provide winning fodder for the big club, and that winning in the minors was a good thing because it indicated talent.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:27 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
No, I do not.

But, I was also one who said that the AA team of McClouth, Doumit, Grabow, Bennett, Snell, Duke, etc. would provide winning fodder for the big club, and that winning in the minors was a good thing because it indicated talent.

ZM

Sometimes it indicates talent, and sometimes it indicates that you've got a AA team loaded with guys over the age of 25, as we have occasionally seen at various minor league levels in the past. Not the Altoona team you're talking about, but maybe a couple of them right before that.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:39 pm 
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Yes, yes it sometimes does. But, you'll note not a geezer among that team I posted.

The AAA of that time was loaded with loads though.

What I do not get is this. While the AA club gave McC, Doumit et al, the High and Low A, and Williamsport (at the time) were also squashing everyone, and I don't see those teams as loaded with aging curmudgeons?????

Maybe it was the DL philosophy of college players dominating at that level.. .I don't know.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Yes, yes it sometimes does. But, you'll note not a geezer among that team I posted.

The problem is that the team you posted does not exist. Those players weren't all at AA at the same time in the same year. Duke and McLouth didn't get there until 2004, at which point Grabow was already in the majors and Bennett was already in another organization.

Winning and losing at the minor league level does not, in itself, mean anything. Look at the 2005 Lynchburg Hillcats as an example--they won a ton of games, but their offense was led by 27-year-old Pat Magness, 25-year-old Adam Boeve, 25-year-old Brad Rea, and 23-year-old Javier Guzman. The only guys who've made the majors from that team are Nyjer Morgan, Jon Albaladejo, Josh Sharpless and Craig Stansberry. None of them have accomplished a whole lot. That team won a lot of games not because it was promising, but because it was loaded with old players. Littlefield did that a lot, then would cynically point to the won-loss records as evidence that things were getting better. It was all for show.

I agree with you that there were better ways to say what Wilbur wanted to say, but just look at the Class AA roster and you'll see exactly what he's talking about. There aren't any serious prospects there. Or, well, there weren't until this weekend and a couple of promotions today.


Last edited by charlie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pearce gets the nod
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 10:11 pm 
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charlie wrote:
Yes, yes it sometimes does. But, you'll note not a geezer among that team I posted.

The problem is that the team you posted does not exist. Those players weren't all at AA at the same time in the same year. Duke and McLouth didn't get there until 2004, at which point Grabow was already in the majors and Bennett was already in another organization.

Winning and losing at the minor league level does not, in itself, mean anything. Look at the 2005 Lynchburg Hillcats as an example--they won a ton of games, but their offense was led by 27-year-old Pat Magness, 25-year-old Adam Boeve, 25-year-old Jon Rea, and 23-year-old Javier Guzman. The only guys who've made the majors from that team are Nyjer Morgan, Jon Albaladejo, Josh Sharpless and Craig Stansberry. None of them have accomplished a whole lot. That team won a lot of games not because it was promising, but because it was loaded with old players. Littlefield did that a lot, then would cynically point to the won-loss records as evidence that things were getting better. It was all for show.

I agree with you that there were better ways to say what Wilbur wanted to say, but just look at the Class AA roster and you'll see exactly what he's talking about. There aren't any serious prospects there. Or, well, there weren't until this weekend and a couple of promotions today.

Just for the record, the 2004 Altoona team that went 85-56:

Position players who appeared in at least 50 games included

C - Ronnie Paulino and Ryan Doumit, both 23
1B - Josh Bonifay, 25, Ray Navarette, 26
2B - Jeff Keppinger, 24
3B - Yurendell DeCaster, 24
SS - Shaun Skrehot and Kevin Nicholson, both 28
OF - Nate McLouth, 22
OF - Ray Sadler, 23
OF - Chris Duffy, 24

Pitchers who started at least 10 games:

Ian Snell, 22
Brian Bullington, 23
Mike Connolly, 22
Bobby Bradley, 23
Landon Jacobsen, 25

I didn't include relievers because many minor league bullpens are full of overaged washouts.

They average just a hair over 24 years of age. It's safe to say that anyone over the age of 24 in AA cannot be considered a serious prospect to become an every day player in the major leagues. This team wasn't ancient, but it wasn't young, either.

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