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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:56 am 
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To suggest that there isn't a bias on ESPN for New York and Boston is like saying that Fox News is fair and balanced-- just nuts.

Buster may well not even know the needs of our Pirates. After all, we're nowhere on his radar screen. How much does he know about our minor league system? Yes, if talking about this season alone, the Yankees got the better of the deal. Baseball is a multi-year consideration for a GM trying to build.

The longer I think aboout it, the more since it makes. May well turn out to be a great trade. We are a better team in three years than we would be without the trade, cause they're gone anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:08 pm 
I didn't necessarily put much into Buster Olney's opinion on the matter because, as you pointed out, he doesn't know the Pirates system, etc. What bothered me was that other GMs who DO know the Pirates system were criticizing the deal. And justifiably ... if that first deal has been actually the deal completed, that would have been horrible.

Unfortuantly (And thankfully) the media got their facts wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:11 pm 
JFlash02 wrote:
Pirates4real wrote:
Yup all the guys on baseball tonight are basically having a Bucco bashfest. Saying that we didn't get nearly enough and that a lot of contending teams in the AL are not very happy.


If the other teams wanted these two more, they should have increased their offers... I'm not upset.


JFlash, they might have increased their offers closer to the deadline. Now, we'll never know.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:15 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I didn't necessarily put much into Buster Olney's opinion on the matter because, as you pointed out, he doesn't know the Pirates system, etc. What bothered me was that other GMs who DO know the Pirates system were criticizing the deal. And justifiably ... if that first deal has been actually the deal completed, that would have been horrible.

Unfortuantly (And thankfully) the media got their facts wrong.


I think Olney was full of sh!t when he reported less than two hours after the first trade rumours began swirling that GMs everywhere were calling him to voice displeasure. He's a shill for ESPN and the Yankees and what he "reported" was yellow journalism at it's finest. Furthermore, it was quite evident that many people were using his initial "reports" as their evidence to support the notion that the Pirates got hosed.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:17 pm 
Argentum wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I didn't necessarily put much into Buster Olney's opinion on the matter because, as you pointed out, he doesn't know the Pirates system, etc. What bothered me was that other GMs who DO know the Pirates system were criticizing the deal. And justifiably ... if that first deal has been actually the deal completed, that would have been horrible.

Unfortuantly (And thankfully) the media got their facts wrong.


I think Olney was full of sh!t when he reported less than two hours after the first trade rumours began swirling that GMs everywhere were calling him to voice displeasure. He's a shill for ESPN and the Yankees and what he "reported" was yellow journalism at it's finest. Furthermore, it was quite evident that many people were using his initial "reports" as their evidence to support the notion that the Pirates got hosed.


Possibly. But I don't see what he had to gain by making that up.

Either way, though, I see three certainties in this.

1 - The real trade is good
2 - The "fake" trade would have sucked
3 - The media did a horrible job


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:21 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I didn't necessarily put much into Buster Olney's opinion on the matter because, as you pointed out, he doesn't know the Pirates system, etc. What bothered me was that other GMs who DO know the Pirates system were criticizing the deal. .


And, they would be who/whom? Names, if you want to be credible. Names.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:24 pm 
ZelieMike wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I didn't necessarily put much into Buster Olney's opinion on the matter because, as you pointed out, he doesn't know the Pirates system, etc. What bothered me was that other GMs who DO know the Pirates system were criticizing the deal. .


And, they would be who/whom? Names, if you want to be credible. Names.

ZM


That's the problem. If these guys talked to Buster off the record, he'll never reveal their names and, therefore, we'll never know who they were.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:53 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
That's the problem. If these guys talked to Buster off the record, he'll never reveal their names and, therefore, we'll never know who they were.


How convenient for Buster.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:27 pm 
Argentum wrote:
Elmer wrote:
That's the problem. If these guys talked to Buster off the record, he'll never reveal their names and, therefore, we'll never know who they were.


How convenient for Buster.


True. It's certainly possible. I'm not really sure what agenda he would have to do that, but given the way ESPN reported the initial deal as fact, I certainly don't trust what they say at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:46 pm 
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To counter Buster, Keith Law had this to say about Ohlendorf:

The one player going to Pittsburgh with major league experience is Ross Ohlendorf, who projects as a good late-game short reliever, perhaps a closer but at least a solid setup man. He has an above-average fastball at 92-94 mph, an average slider that flashes plus, and an average changeup, and his command has been much better since he moved to the bullpen after working as a starter at Princeton and at the start of his pro career. I see no reason he couldn't pitch for the Pirates right now, and the difference between him and Marte for the rest of the season will be less than half a win, and could easily be zero.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3505898&name=law_keith&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3505898%26name%3dlaw_keith


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:27 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
To counter Buster, Keith Law had this to say about Ohlendorf:

The one player going to Pittsburgh with major league experience is Ross Ohlendorf, who projects as a good late-game short reliever, perhaps a closer but at least a solid setup man. He has an above-average fastball at 92-94 mph, an average slider that flashes plus, and an average changeup, and his command has been much better since he moved to the bullpen after working as a starter at Princeton and at the start of his pro career. I see no reason he couldn't pitch for the Pirates right now, and the difference between him and Marte for the rest of the season will be less than half a win, and could easily be zero.

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3505898&name=law_keith&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fespn%2fblog%2findex%3fentryID%3d3505898%26name%3dlaw_keith


the rest....

The revised Pirates-Yankees trade looks slightly better for the Pirates. Daniel McCutchen's velocity has gradually improved since college, when he was mostly 88-90 mph, to 90-93 mph now. While he lacks a true outpitch, he has above-average command and control and should be able to work as a solid fifth starter in the big leagues. Jeff Karstens is sort of a poor man's McCutchen, a sixth starter in the big leagues who is nice to have in Triple-A but shouldn't get regular turns in a rotation. The Pirates could use him now, however, with Tom Gorzelanny on the shelf and John Van Benschoten getting pounded every fifth day.

Among the game's top prospects if we're only considering his ability, Jose Tabata has great hand-eye coordination and good bat speed, and I think he'll hit for power down the road despite his short stature because he makes solid, hard contact. Or, at least he made solid contact before mailing in his 2008 season, one in which he earned multiple unofficial suspensions for his behavior and took a lazy approach to at bats, swinging right through 90-mph fastballs down the chute. There's a high probability that Tabata never amounts to anything in the majors, but a year ago, the Yankees wouldn't have dreamed of including him in a deal like this, so the Pirates are buying low on him much as the A's bought low on Josh Donaldson.

The best sign in this deal is that the Pirates didn't place some ridiculous value on finishing over .500 this year and breaking their streak of losing seasons. Instead, they broke with the Dave Littlefield pattern of never bringing down their trade demands and failing to flip players for prospects at the trade deadline and consummated a deal. Whether or not it was the best deal available -- one front-office exec told me tonight that he felt that the return was "a joke" -- at least it's a completed deal and a sign that the Pirates are serious about rebuilding. For the Yankees, they give up two players unlikely to ever pitch for them, a good right-handed reliever in a year when they have a few of those, and a problem child with a big upside, which isn't much to give up when you're playing for right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:49 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I didn't necessarily put much into Buster Olney's opinion on the matter because, as you pointed out, he doesn't know the Pirates system, etc. What bothered me was that other GMs who DO know the Pirates system were criticizing the deal. .


And, they would be who/whom? Names, if you want to be credible. Names.

ZM


That's the problem. If these guys talked to Buster off the record, he'll never reveal their names and, therefore, we'll never know who they were.

Or if they even exist at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:16 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Or if they even exist at all.


Would a guy named "Buster" ever lie??

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