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 Post subject: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:32 pm 
... that he's getting text messages from baseball people saying "are you kidding me?" regarding what the Pirates got in return for Marte/Nady.

Raise the Jolly Roger!!!!!!!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:46 pm 
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Yup all the guys on baseball tonight are basically having a Bucco bashfest. Saying that we didn't get nearly enough and that a lot of contending teams in the AL are not very happy.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:52 pm 
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What does Buster know? If this trade turns out to be a winner for the Bucs in a year or two, Buster will be saying he knew it all along. The media and fans are too present focused. Let's see how this shakes out in a year or two.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:00 am 
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The Pirates got the third best prospect in the Yankee farm system. That's pretty good. Maybe they didn't get enough. But it's a little hard to determine that at this point.

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:01 am 
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DocJeanO wrote:
What does Buster know? If this trade turns out to be a winner for the Bucs in a year or two, Buster will be saying he knew it all along. The media and fans are too present focused. Let's see how this shakes out in a year or two.


Buster was saying that he was getting a bunch of text messages bashing the trade from a lot of baseball people. Baseball people, I assume GMs, managers, scouts, players etc, are emailing Buster in disbelief of what the Pirates got for Nady and Marte. A lot of Bucco fans are in spin mode tonight, talking about the future and how we never know how these guys will turn out, which is true. But realistically, none of the guys the Buccos got have great track records or pedigree. The possible exception is Tabata whose career has hit some real snags and made himself expendable to the Yanks.

Granted, I think the ESPN guys are going a little overboard with their bashing but still, the consensus among everybody including most Pirate fans seems to be that the return is underwhelming at best.

PS--Tabata was the 3rd ranked guy in the Yanks farm system going into 2007. His stock and consideration in the eyes of the Yanks has dipped quite a bit since then.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:02 am 
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Terrible move by the looks of it
It is like dl bad.
Why trade up marte when we get 2 good draft picks? We get one good prospect for 2 good established players.

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:05 am 
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Tabata is very young. Let's give him a year or two to mature. Some of the Yankees thought very highly of him. He and Cutch might be terrific in the outfield. These kinds of trades are very difficult to gage, given that some of the players are very young. I'm willing to bet that a couple of the players the Pirates got will be on their team longer than Nady and Marte will be on the Yankees.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:08 am 
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Can any of you stat guys translate what this says about Tabata?

Thanks.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecot ... 80812A.php

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:10 am 
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Here is a more positive outlook on the trade.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/b ... index.html

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:12 am 
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I would think that one would have to look hard at an awful lot of numbers, or focus on some really key factors, to figure out what interested the Pirates BA-driven database.

I've heard and read some hints. Strikeouts high for the pitchers. Hit mid-90's, etc.

Not sure what the Pirates look at these days. I do know that a guy like Salas showed something in his numbers that NH felt he wa worth making a trade for.

I also know that the Indians got just killed in the first couple years doing trades just like this, and they turned out just fine because the Indians had differant information than the talking heads. And, they, not the heads, were right.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:19 am 
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Another opinion

http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/blogs/ent ... 96/9548236

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:30 am 
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Here is the Olney comments.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/vid ... Id=2521705

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:35 am 
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Beyond that, Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus was on the Pirates post game show. He slammed the trade. He said Tabata has character issues, is out of shape, once left the team mid-game. Goldstein predicted Tabata doesn't hae the potential to hit more than 10 home runs in a year in the big leagues.

He doesn't see any of the pitchers as potenial big league starters, and he doesn't see Coke as much more than an organizational guy.

Goldstein also said other teams were very surprised at how little the Pirates got in return. He pointed out that other teams had offered more, but were rejected by the Pirates.


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:56 am 
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I liked the Phillies logo instead at the bottom of the ESPN screen..

The one time of year the Pirates actually get any coverage and we can't even get our logo on the screen... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:32 am 
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bucco boy wrote:
Can any of you stat guys translate what this says about Tabata?

Thanks.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecot ... 80812A.php

For someone that young, a PECOTA prediction is bound to be off. Tabata does not have enough of a history to make an accurate prediction, and he has very few good comparables. I'd listen to scouts on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:53 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I would think that one would have to look hard at an awful lot of numbers, or focus on some really key factors, to figure out what interested the Pirates BA-driven database.

I've heard and read some hints. Strikeouts high for the pitchers. Hit mid-90's, etc.

Not sure what the Pirates look at these days. I do know that a guy like Salas showed something in his numbers that NH felt he wa worth making a trade for.

I also know that the Indians got just killed in the first couple years doing trades just like this, and they turned out just fine because the Indians had differant information than the talking heads. And, they, not the heads, were right.

ZM


Would you attribute that to . . . what's the guy's name???? Antonetti or something like that?

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Let's look a little bit "behind the reporting" . . . .

Does anyone really think that ESPN (whether intentional or not) doesn't have a pro-NY bias? Do you really think that, in light of who the Yankees received, ESPN would report anything other than Brian Cashman pulled off an "amazing" deal for the Yankees? C'mon. Consider the source.

Let's also say that Buster Olney actually received the "you've got to be kidding me" text messages from other GMs. My questions to him would be: (1) What GMs? (2) What did you offer the Pirates? (3) When did you make the offer? Trading players is nothing more than a game of high stakes poker. What did Kenny Rogers sing? You have to know when to hold them, know when to fold them? The complaints by other GMs sound like whiny high school girls running to the media because they potentially held their cards too long. IF (and I repeat IF, IF, IF, IF, IF) they actually were willing to make a better offer and IF Huntington was asking for "the moon," then they have only themselves to blame for trying to wait him out. Rather than whining to the media . . . perhaps they should look in the mirror.

Also, perhaps those same GMs (particularly the Red Sox and the Rays) have a difficult job this morning when trying to explain to their bosses why they FAILED to acquire Marte and/or Nady and the third place team in the division is now markedly better (and playing some real good ball after the break). Maybe that is motivation for their whining?

I have no basis for assessing the trade. It is simply guesswork at this point. All I know is that I really enjoyed watching Xavier Nady play baseball. It won't be nearly as fun watching this team on TV without him in the lineup. I hope Steve Pearce gets the chance to play and to show whether he can cut it at the big league level. Personally, I don't see it happening. I think that we will all be disappointed with what he ultimately has to offer. I really hope I'm wrong.

With that said, I'm now stuck trying to figure out how I can root for a player like Nady while he plays for a team I despise.

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:43 pm 
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I wonder if Buster Olney, Kirk Herbstriet and ths guy...

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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:34 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I also know that the Indians got just killed in the first couple years doing trades just like this, and they turned out just fine because the Indians had differant information than the talking heads. ZM


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 Post subject: Re: Buster Olney just said ...
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:47 am 
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Pirates4real wrote:
Yup all the guys on baseball tonight are basically having a Bucco bashfest. Saying that we didn't get nearly enough and that a lot of contending teams in the AL are not very happy.


If the other teams wanted these two more, they should have increased their offers... I'm not upset.


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