Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:34 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:42 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
ZelieMike wrote:
Care to point out which of Nady or Marte was CC Sabathia. Because that is what it takes to get elite prospects, or at least what most consdier elite.

Like Cashman said, in ST, he wouldn't even have considered giving up those guys for these guys.

ZM


A year ago Marte/Nady for Tabata alone would have been laughed at by Cashman. This is a classic buy low, sell high move on NH's part. Tabata and all three pitchers have seen their values drop in less than a year's time. Risky move by NH for sure, but the upsides are quite nice if these guys pan out.

Couple this with Nady's 2008 numbers being potentially just as volitile and I think the deal was a decent one. Marte is legit, but it looks like he may be mis-used as a LOOGY in Gotham.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:47 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
Who out there thinks we are going to get a #1 or #2 SP for either one or both of these guys? Not going to happen unless you think other GM's are as stupid as you think NH is. Particularly when you consider that Marte is FA this year and Nady next. These young guns that you guys want are under control for five, six years. It would be insanity for them to come for these two, even though they are indeed good players.

We may well have done as well as possible when considering our needs. The question of Bay and Wilson, IMO, if this kid in the outfield lives up to his billing, we will be trading both by by July 31 of next season or sooner. We also have acquired three power arms. We shall see.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10729
ZelieMike wrote:
Like Cashman said, in ST, he wouldn't even have considered giving up those guys for these guys.

ZM


That much I believe. As others have pointed out, Huntington made a great call in holding onto Nady and Bay for the first 2/3 of this season, thereby driving up their respective trade values by a large amount.

BUCFAN SCOUTING REPORT WARNING: And two of the pitchers obtained in the trade - McCutchen and Ohlendorf - are high K, low WHIP, low ERA guys in the minors. Ohlendorf gets guys out with a 93-95 mph 2-seamer. Having MLB.tv, I was able to see him in one game and he hit 96 mph a couple of times. His stuff is nasty.

McCutchen is reported to have superb command of a 2-seam fastball that hits 92-94 mph regularly, with a good curve and nasty splitter. Now, take these reports for what they are worth since they come from Yankee fans (pre-trade), but one site noted from viewing video and conducting interviews with Yankee management that McCutchen hit 95 with his 4-seam. Guys who throw 2-seamers at 92 mph+ and can hit 95 mph with the 4-seam (as both Ohlendorf and McCutchen can apparently do) are not "nibblers," they are power arms. Also, for McCutchen, his control is a huge plus.

Those two pitchers project higher than some are reporting (number 3 or 4 at best). Karstns is the least exciting prospect, as far as I am concerned, if only because he does not have the power fastball. In fact, he does not fit the Huntington mold of a power arm at all. He is a classic finesse guy, who works the corners with 2-seam fastball, decent curve and change. He sits at 88 mph in the game I saw (via television).


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:31 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:11 pm
Posts: 3364
Location: Wheeling, WV
Thanks Bucfan, great post. You are what I call a serious baseball guy. Hopefully, your assessment of the pitchers is one the money. You have given us some real information to base an opinion.

_________________
2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:16 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 27
Bucfan wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Like Cashman said, in ST, he wouldn't even have considered giving up those guys for these guys.

ZM


That much I believe. As others have pointed out, Huntington made a great call in holding onto Nady and Bay for the first 2/3 of this season, thereby driving up their respective trade values by a large amount.

BUCFAN SCOUTING REPORT WARNING: And two of the pitchers obtained in the trade - McCutchen and Ohlendorf - are high K, low WHIP, low ERA guys in the minors. Ohlendorf gets guys out with a 93-95 mph 2-seamer. Having MLB.tv, I was able to see him in one game and he hit 96 mph a couple of times. His stuff is nasty.

McCutchen is reported to have superb command of a 2-seam fastball that hits 92-94 mph regularly, with a good curve and nasty splitter. Now, take these reports for what they are worth since they come from Yankee fans (pre-trade), but one site noted from viewing video and conducting interviews with Yankee management that McCutchen hit 95 with his 4-seam. Guys who throw 2-seamers at 92 mph+ and can hit 95 mph with the 4-seam (as both Ohlendorf and McCutchen can apparently do) are not "nibblers," they are power arms. Also, for McCutchen, his control is a huge plus.

Those two pitchers project higher than some are reporting (number 3 or 4 at best). Karstns is the least exciting prospect, as far as I am concerned, if only because he does not have the power fastball. In fact, he does not fit the Huntington mold of a power arm at all. He is a classic finesse guy, who works the corners with 2-seam fastball, decent curve and change. He sits at 88 mph in the game I saw (via television).



First, maybe I should have chosen a better word than "elite". Ian Kennedy and Phillip Hughes (pre-injury he was) may not be the elite prospects, but both are a substantial step up from Ohlendorf and McCutchen. I do not believe Nady AND Marte should have fetched a David Price or Jake McGee like elite pitching prospect. But it seems to be pretty universal among baseball analyst like Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal that we got the short end of the stick in this deal. Ken Rosenthal said that "reviews on this trade ranged from critical to scathing" (not in a good way for our Buccos). Olney reportedly recieved many texts that were critical and shocked at the lack of return for Nady and Marte.

To even entertain whether or not it would have been wise to trade Nady and Marte for Tabata straight up last winter is silly. It is NOT last winter. Nady's year could have been a fluke, but what if it wasn't. His pedigree in the Padre organization was always much higher than Jason Bay. Nady WAS a top 30-50 prospect in all of baseball in 2002 and 2003. Maybe he was just finally putting it together. Marte was in high demand.

Your evaluation of Ohlendorf and McCutchen seems to be exaggerated compared to their history and Baseball America reports from their prospect book. If McCutchen had a 2-seam fastball that sat at 92-94, than he sure doesn't use it well because he only K'ed 3 in 6 innings last night in Indy. That is not a true power pitcher. I would be pleasantly suprised if his 4-seamer sat in the 92-94 range. A consistant 2-seam fastball that sits between 92-94, with a good curvball and "nasty" splitter is Major League All-star stuff, not #14 prospect in the Yankees organization.

FYI: here is what 2008 Baseball America Prospect Handbook had to say on McCutchen and Ohlendorf:

McCutchen (#14 Prospect): low 90's with his four-seam fastball (which hits 94) and was around 88-91 with his two-seamer. Some in the organization want to channel his aggressiveness into the bullpen, believing his stuff will play up as was the case with Ohlendorf. But others see McCutchen as having more value as a No. 3 or 4 starter role.

Ohlendorf (#9 Prospect): Ohlendorf (who was trade by the Diamondbacks to Yankees) began his Yankees career by getting hammered as a Triple A starter. He missed two months with back problems, but thrived once he was moved to the bullpen after returning and finished the year on the playoff roster. A sinker-slider pitcher who relied on groundouts as a starter, Ohlendorf became a power pitcher as a reliever. His fastball jumped at least a grade, sitting at 94 and topping out at 97 with excellent sink. ... Lefthanders owned Ohlendorf when he was a starter because his changeup was fringy.

Jeff Karstens was unable to be ranked because his status is not longer a prospect. However, he ranked as the Yankees #26 prospect in the 2007 Prospect book. Also in the 2007 book, TJ Beam was the Yankees #23 prospect, McCutchen was #30, Tabata was #2, and Ohlendorf was #10 with the Diamondbacks.

I may have negatively over-reacted when I first heard of this trade, and I am now willing to take a wait-and-see approach. Nonetheless, I am far from happy with the return. If you PACKAGE (which is almost unheard of) 2 of the most coveted player, you need to really get a good deal. Plus, Marte would have been a Type -A free agent and if we would have lost him, we would have been compensated with a high draft pick. We had Nady in contract through NEXT year. We had a lot of leverage on our side. DL did MUCH better in his first BIG trade (Giles for Perez and Bay). AT THE TIME, the only bummer about that trade is DL had to settle for Bay when he REALLY wanted Nady and Perez. I am not comparing the two trades using hindsight, I am comparing them with the reaction of the industy insiders who I vividly remember thinking DL did pretty well. Obviously, he turned into a laughing stock, but he was looking pretty good after that Giles trade.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
dr.j wrote:
DL did MUCH better in his first BIG trade (Giles for Perez and Bay). AT THE TIME, the only bummer about that trade is DL had to settle for Bay when he REALLY wanted Nady and Perez. I am not comparing the two trades using hindsight, I am comparing them with the reaction of the industy insiders who I vividly remember thinking DL did pretty well. Obviously, he turned into a laughing stock, but he was looking pretty good after that Giles trade.

That looks like a bit of revisionist history, because the Giles trade was not even his first big trade that season. The Giles trade was on the heels of the Aramis Ramirez-Kenny Lofton trade, which was huge and GOD AWFUL. Then, of course, there was the Jason Schmidt-John Vander Wal trade, which also stunk. I have a hard time believing many thought DL was looking good even after the Giles trade.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Last edited by Willton on Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:30 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
dr.j wrote:
DL did MUCH better in his first BIG trade (Giles for Perez and Bay). AT THE TIME, the only bummer about that trade is DL had to settle for Bay when he REALLY wanted Nady and Perez.


That was hardly DL's first BIG trade. He had previously traded Jason Schmidt (for nothing) and Aramis Ramirez (for nothing). And my memory might be hazy, but I think he had also traded Gonzo and gotten him back again before the Giles trade.

Also, Giles was a bigger prize than Nady + Marte, so DL SHOULD have gotten more in that trade.

I can understand people being disappointed in the return (I was hoping for more too), but this was not DL-level bad. Further, the one promising thing about this trade is that NH is taking a shot on a prospect with excellent upside/moderate risk instead of accumulating Armando Rios/Jody Gerut/Brian Rogers/Shawn Chacon. You may not like the return, but that is the mentality that our GM should have.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:31 pm 
dr.j wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
Like Cashman said, in ST, he wouldn't even have considered giving up those guys for these guys.

ZM


That much I believe. As others have pointed out, Huntington made a great call in holding onto Nady and Bay for the first 2/3 of this season, thereby driving up their respective trade values by a large amount.

BUCFAN SCOUTING REPORT WARNING: And two of the pitchers obtained in the trade - McCutchen and Ohlendorf - are high K, low WHIP, low ERA guys in the minors. Ohlendorf gets guys out with a 93-95 mph 2-seamer. Having MLB.tv, I was able to see him in one game and he hit 96 mph a couple of times. His stuff is nasty.

McCutchen is reported to have superb command of a 2-seam fastball that hits 92-94 mph regularly, with a good curve and nasty splitter. Now, take these reports for what they are worth since they come from Yankee fans (pre-trade), but one site noted from viewing video and conducting interviews with Yankee management that McCutchen hit 95 with his 4-seam. Guys who throw 2-seamers at 92 mph+ and can hit 95 mph with the 4-seam (as both Ohlendorf and McCutchen can apparently do) are not "nibblers," they are power arms. Also, for McCutchen, his control is a huge plus.

Those two pitchers project higher than some are reporting (number 3 or 4 at best). Karstns is the least exciting prospect, as far as I am concerned, if only because he does not have the power fastball. In fact, he does not fit the Huntington mold of a power arm at all. He is a classic finesse guy, who works the corners with 2-seam fastball, decent curve and change. He sits at 88 mph in the game I saw (via television).



First, maybe I should have chosen a better word than "elite". Ian Kennedy and Phillip Hughes (pre-injury he was) may not be the elite prospects, but both are a substantial step up from Ohlendorf and McCutchen. I do not believe Nady AND Marte should have fetched a David Price or Jake McGee like elite pitching prospect. But it seems to be pretty universal among baseball analyst like Buster Olney and Ken Rosenthal that we got the short end of the stick in this deal. Ken Rosenthal said that "reviews on this trade ranged from critical to scathing" (not in a good way for our Buccos). Olney reportedly recieved many texts that were critical and shocked at the lack of return for Nady and Marte.

To even entertain whether or not it would have been wise to trade Nady and Marte for Tabata straight up last winter is silly. It is NOT last winter. Nady's year could have been a fluke, but what if it wasn't. His pedigree in the Padre organization was always much higher than Jason Bay. Nady WAS a top 30-50 prospect in all of baseball in 2002 and 2003. Maybe he was just finally putting it together. Marte was in high demand.

Your evaluation of Ohlendorf and McCutchen seems to be exaggerated compared to their history and Baseball America reports from their prospect book. If McCutchen had a 2-seam fastball that sat at 92-94, than he sure doesn't use it well because he only K'ed 3 in 6 innings last night in Indy. That is not a true power pitcher. I would be pleasantly suprised if his 4-seamer sat in the 92-94 range. A consistant 2-seam fastball that sits between 92-94, with a good curvball and "nasty" splitter is Major League All-star stuff, not #14 prospect in the Yankees organization.

FYI: here is what 2008 Baseball America Prospect Handbook had to say on McCutchen and Ohlendorf:

McCutchen (#14 Prospect): low 90's with his four-seam fastball (which hits 94) and was around 88-91 with his two-seamer. Some in the organization want to channel his aggressiveness into the bullpen, believing his stuff will play up as was the case with Ohlendorf. But others see McCutchen as having more value as a No. 3 or 4 starter role.

Ohlendorf (#9 Prospect): Ohlendorf (who was trade by the Diamondbacks to Yankees) began his Yankees career by getting hammered as a Triple A starter. He missed two months with back problems, but thrived once he was moved to the bullpen after returning and finished the year on the playoff roster. A sinker-slider pitcher who relied on groundouts as a starter, Ohlendorf became a power pitcher as a reliever. His fastball jumped at least a grade, sitting at 94 and topping out at 97 with excellent sink. ... Lefthanders owned Ohlendorf when he was a starter because his changeup was fringy.

Jeff Karstens was unable to be ranked because his status is not longer a prospect. However, he ranked as the Yankees #26 prospect in the 2007 Prospect book. Also in the 2007 book, TJ Beam was the Yankees #23 prospect, McCutchen was #30, Tabata was #2, and Ohlendorf was #10 with the Diamondbacks.

I may have negatively over-reacted when I first heard of this trade, and I am now willing to take a wait-and-see approach. Nonetheless, I am far from happy with the return. If you PACKAGE (which is almost unheard of) 2 of the most coveted player, you need to really get a good deal. Plus, Marte would have been a Type -A free agent and if we would have lost him, we would have been compensated with a high draft pick. We had Nady in contract through NEXT year. We had a lot of leverage on our side. DL did MUCH better in his first BIG trade (Giles for Perez and Bay). AT THE TIME, the only bummer about that trade is DL had to settle for Bay when he REALLY wanted Nady and Perez. I am not comparing the two trades using hindsight, I am comparing them with the reaction of the industy insiders who I vividly remember thinking DL did pretty well. Obviously, he turned into a laughing stock, but he was looking pretty good after that Giles trade.


I think the truth is somewhere in between, Dr. J. I feel NH could have gotten more, maybe an "elite" prospect (depending on how you define that), if he had waited until deadline day. Maybe ... but we'll never know bc he pulled the trigger too fast. The quick trigger finger is the biggest negative in evaluating this trade.

That said, the deal he did get is decent. He got 3 quality arms and a Russian Roullette OF with upside. That's a lot ... a positive in evaluating this deal. It's an average-to-solid trade.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Elmer wrote:
I think the truth is somewhere in between, Dr. J. I feel NH could have gotten more, maybe an "elite" prospect (depending on how you define that), if he had waited until deadline day. Maybe ... but we'll never know bc he pulled the trigger too fast. The quick trigger finger is the biggest negative in evaluating this trade.

That said, the deal he did get is decent. He got 3 quality arms and a Russian Roullette OF with upside. That's a lot ... a positive in evaluating this deal. It's an average-to-solid trade.

The "quick trigger finger" is a far cry better than DL's wait-until-the-absolute-last-second routine, which drove other GMs to find other options to fill their needs and caused DL to panic and take whatever low-ball offer other GMs were offering for players that DL absolutely had to trade, like Lofton, Casey, Lawton, Craig Wilson, Benson, and Mark Redman.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:49 pm 
Willton wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I think the truth is somewhere in between, Dr. J. I feel NH could have gotten more, maybe an "elite" prospect (depending on how you define that), if he had waited until deadline day. Maybe ... but we'll never know bc he pulled the trigger too fast. The quick trigger finger is the biggest negative in evaluating this trade.

That said, the deal he did get is decent. He got 3 quality arms and a Russian Roullette OF with upside. That's a lot ... a positive in evaluating this deal. It's an average-to-solid trade.

The "quick trigger finger" is a far cry better than DL's wait-until-the-absolute-last-second routine, which drove other GMs to find other options to fill their needs and caused DL to panic and take whatever low-ball offer other GMs were offering for players that DL absolutely had to trade, like Lofton, Casey, Lawton, Craig Wilson, Benson, and Mark Redman.


I agree. My "quick trigger finger" comment is in no way trying to equate NH to DL.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:10 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 27
WOW, I was way off on the Giles trade chronology. I should have did my homework. I should have known better than to even remotely try to defend DL. Ask my wife, I loathe DL. I am optimistic that NH will get us on the right path, I am just a tad bit disgruntled over the better part of the last two decades. Any negative attention that is thrown the Buccos way, it is like, "here we go again...".


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 3:21 pm 
dr.j wrote:
WOW, I was way off on the Giles trade chronology. I should have did my homework. I should have known better than to even remotely try to defend DL. Ask my wife, I loathe DL. I am optimistic that NH will get us on the right path, I am just a tad bit disgruntled over the better part of the last two decades. Any negative attention that is thrown the Buccos way, it is like, "here we go again...".


That's certainly understandable.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10729
dr.j wrote:
I am just a tad bit disgruntled over the better part of the last two decades.


Dr. J: Very few of us are gruntled.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10729
dr.j wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
BUCFAN SCOUTING REPORT WARNING: And two of the pitchers obtained in the trade - McCutchen and Ohlendorf - are high K, low WHIP, low ERA guys in the minors. Ohlendorf gets guys out with a 93-95 mph 2-seamer. Having MLB.tv, I was able to see him in one game and he hit 96 mph a couple of times. His stuff is nasty.

McCutchen is reported to have superb command of a 2-seam fastball that hits 92-94 mph regularly, with a good curve and nasty splitter. Now, take these reports for what they are worth since they come from Yankee fans (pre-trade), but one site noted from viewing video and conducting interviews with Yankee management that McCutchen hit 95 with his 4-seam. Guys who throw 2-seamers at 92 mph+ and can hit 95 mph with the 4-seam (as both Ohlendorf and McCutchen can apparently do) are not "nibblers," they are power arms. Also, for McCutchen, his control is a huge plus.


Your evaluation of Ohlendorf and McCutchen seems to be exaggerated compared to their history and Baseball America reports from their prospect book. If McCutchen had a 2-seam fastball that sat at 92-94, than he sure doesn't use it well because he only K'ed 3 in 6 innings last night in Indy. That is not a true power pitcher. I would be pleasantly suprised if his 4-seamer sat in the 92-94 range. A consistant 2-seam fastball that sits between 92-94, with a good curvball and "nasty" splitter is Major League All-star stuff, not #14 prospect in the Yankees organization.

FYI: here is what 2008 Baseball America Prospect Handbook had to say on McCutchen and Ohlendorf:

McCutchen (#14 Prospect): low 90's with his four-seam fastball (which hits 94) and was around 88-91 with his two-seamer. Some in the organization want to channel his aggressiveness into the bullpen, believing his stuff will play up as was the case with Ohlendorf. But others see McCutchen as having more value as a No. 3 or 4 starter role.

Ohlendorf (#9 Prospect): Ohlendorf (who was trade by the Diamondbacks to Yankees) began his Yankees career by getting hammered as a Triple A starter. He missed two months with back problems, but thrived once he was moved to the bullpen after returning and finished the year on the playoff roster. A sinker-slider pitcher who relied on groundouts as a starter, Ohlendorf became a power pitcher as a reliever. His fastball jumped at least a grade, sitting at 94 and topping out at 97 with excellent sink


(1) Ian Kennedy is a very good prospect but he is not much better than McCutchen. Kennedy is not going to throw harder than he is now (92-93). He is a top prospect, due to his excellent control, high K ratio - like McCutchen. McCutchen is bigger, and tops out at 95 mph - similar to Kennedy. Kennedy is a better prospect since he is only 23 this season, while McCutchen is 25.

(2) I am not sure where the disagreement lies as to player performance. You find that BA has McCutchen throwing his 2-seam at 89-91, while a player profile for McCutchen has him throwing it at 92-94. The profiles for McCutchen also have him throwing his 4-seam at 95 mph, and Ohlendorf hitting 95-97 mph - like I noted.

What is the beef?

And as for McCutchen K'ing just 3 in 6 innings last night ... he drove 10 hours to get to Indy, then took the mound. The Indy pitching is so freaking thin right now that the team could not give McCutchen 24 hours to adjust.

But then, I guess a guy should drive 10 hours immediately after being traded and be on top of his game.

By the way, if limited performance is a true indicator of player quality, this just in - Ian Kennedy logged an 0-3 record and 7.41 ERA, with more walks than K's, with the Yankees this year. I guess he sucks.

EDIT: Southhampton's first post on TUPPMB - welcome! - notes that Keith Law reports, "The revised Pirates-Yankees trade looks slightly better for the Pirates. Daniel McCutchen's velocity has gradually improved since college, when he was mostly 88-90 mph, to 90-93 mph now."

I had him at 92-94. You had him at 89-91. Split the difference - 90-93, as per a baseball writer.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5446
Location: Pittsburgh
dr.j wrote:
Your evaluation of Ohlendorf and McCutchen seems to be exaggerated compared to their history and Baseball America reports from their prospect book. If McCutchen had a 2-seam fastball that sat at 92-94, than he sure doesn't use it well because he only K'ed 3 in 6 innings last night in Indy. That is not a true power pitcher.

Nolan Freaking Ryan had starts in which he only K'd 3 in 6 innings. You're going to evaluate a pitcher based on the box score from one game?

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:17 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 27
I'll concede the point that taking one night's box score to make a point is not credible. Point taken. When the smoke clears from this trade, I will be making a positive spin on it too. I am just sick of the Pirates being a laughing stock. I will be rooting for all our new Buccos, and hope they will help us take a step in the positive direction. The biggest positive I see is that NH is drafting and trading for all prospects with some good to great potential upside versus DL who made a career out of trading and drafting low-ceiling, "safer" prospects. That IS a step in the positive direction.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 10729
dr.j wrote:
I'll concede the point that taking one night's box score to make a point is not credible. Point taken. When the smoke clears from this trade, I will be making a positive spin on it too. I am just sick of the Pirates being a laughing stock.


Fair enough.

I try not to get too fired up about grading trades or NFL drafts, since these are simply prognostications as to what young players will do.

If the guys making these projections knew as much as they claim, trust me, they would be working for a professional team. When one of these guys actually predicts that a Nate McLouth becomes a big-time run producer, I will care what they have to say.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 37 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits