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 Post subject: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:11 pm 
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The pirates are trading marte and nady and I really dont know if they got a good deal.
They got tabata is seemingly the only really good prospect in this deal.

Also these 3 pitchers can we expect them in the big leagues immidiately?


And who is the right fielder now with nady gone? Is it going to be pearce or is it going to be michaels tabata or anyone else?

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:15 pm 
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I was just wondering the same thing... Pearce or McCutchen?


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:16 pm 
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I dont think mccutchen isnt there some team usa thing he is going to be playing for?

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:19 pm 
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Oh, that's right. Anyway, two guys have got to join the major league club. We're down two.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:22 pm 
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It wouldnt surprise me if Salas is one of them


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:30 pm 
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I notice Pearce isn't in the lineup- maybe packing for the trip?


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:44 pm 
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Wish I knew too.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:50 pm 
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And another outfield prospect? Tabata is only 19 and he seems like the biggest prospect in this deal.

But the pitchers i dont know about these pitcher i dont think they are that good.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:31 pm 
It's a bad deal, any way you slice it. NH has said for weeks that he'll only part with these guys if he gets "fair return" ... I have yet to hear a mlb analyst call this fair return for the top left handed reliever on the market and one of the top OFers on the market. Classic Pirates front office double talk.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:41 pm 
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We all have to realize that the media, and most of us fans, are very "in the moment" with respect to our opinions. If Tabata turns out to be a star in a few years, no one, including Buster, will recall saying that they trashed the trade. We all have to take a "wait and see" attitude about this trade. I'm willing to trust Neal until the future proves that he was wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:48 pm 
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DocJeanO wrote:
We all have to realize that the media, and most of us fans, are very "in the moment" with respect to our opinions. If Tabata turns out to be a star in a few years, no one, including Buster, will recall saying that they trashed the trade. We all have to take a "wait and see" attitude about this trade. I'm willing to trust Neal until the future proves that he was wrong.


Well put.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:41 am 
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DocJeanO wrote:
We all have to realize that the media, and most of us fans, are very "in the moment" with respect to our opinions. If Tabata turns out to be a star in a few years, no one, including Buster, will recall saying that they trashed the trade. We all have to take a "wait and see" attitude about this trade. I'm willing to trust Neal until the future proves that he was wrong.


If you're talking about the Pittsburgh media, I would agree. But national media who has no vested interest (ESPN, BP, etc.) are saying it was a bad deal.

In any trade you have to have a "wait and see attitude." But the only way you can evaluate it at the moment is by listening to what the analysts say. Analysts who know these players much better than any of us do are saying it was a bad deal for the Pirates.

I was willing to trust Neal until tonight because I like what he's done to this point. By all accounts, he got taken.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:25 am 
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Wait and see will be a good approach... I guess. What very few people are talking about is what we need. We need pitching. The Rays have pitching. We do NOT need another outfielder, we need pitching. WTF... unless the baseball gods are on our side, it looks as though we are in store for a regime that is possibly as inept as DL.... and that is saying a mouthful..... and it tastes like sh#@.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:45 am 
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dr.j wrote:
Wait and see will be a good approach... I guess. What very few people are talking about is what we need. We need pitching. The Rays have pitching. We do NOT need another outfielder, we need pitching. WTF... unless the baseball gods are on our side, it looks as though we are in store for a regime that is possibly as inept as DL.... and that is saying a mouthful..... and it tastes like sh#@.


This was definitely a bad trade Dr. J and there' plenty of reason to be unhappy with the current "regime" , but that doesn't make the regime as bad as Littlefield. DL was among the worst GMs in the history of modern baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:08 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
And another outfield prospect? Tabata is only 19 and he seems like the biggest prospect in this deal.

But the pitchers i dont know about these pitcher i dont think they are that good.

Look at their walk/strikeout ratios. They have potential, especially Kontos.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:10 pm 
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dr.j wrote:
Wait and see will be a good approach... I guess. What very few people are talking about is what we need. We need pitching. The Rays have pitching. We do NOT need another outfielder, we need pitching. WTF... unless the baseball gods are on our side, it looks as though we are in store for a regime that is possibly as inept as DL.... and that is saying a mouthful..... and it tastes like sh#@.

I guess you missed the fact that the Pirates just acquired THREE pitchers.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:29 pm 
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After reading this morning, I'm not sure what to think. We gave up two currently outstanding players for 4 prospects. This is what I have been calling for all year. We have no depth period. It isn't going to materialize out of thin air. So, now we have three pitchers who might fill some of that hole.

Nady has been just great as a Pirate. Marte sure has done well. I think the massive complaints are because the present team is weaker, and less able to compete this year. The possible success of it won't be seen for years to come. I am not willing to say that this was a terrible trade. We all know that we need many players to re-build our farm system. One for one won't give us depth.

Remember that the players that were traded were going to be gone in a year anyway. The question is are the replacements going to give us the quality that helps us win in two, three years? I'm not so sure you critics know the answer to that question, and I'm not sure you see beyond the present.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:31 pm 
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And . . . . it's here . . .
Yesterday morning, NH sucks, can't make a deal, good GMs get deals done, only idiots stand pat . . .
Today, its NH didn't get enough, NH sucks, better players available . . . blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

This is exactly why I hate this time of year.

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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:54 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
dr.j wrote:
Wait and see will be a good approach... I guess. What very few people are talking about is what we need. We need pitching. The Rays have pitching. We do NOT need another outfielder, we need pitching. WTF... unless the baseball gods are on our side, it looks as though we are in store for a regime that is possibly as inept as DL.... and that is saying a mouthful..... and it tastes like sh#@.

I guess you missed the fact that the Pirates just acquired THREE pitchers.


Fair point. However, the 3 pitchers we recieved are NOT elite prospects. If we would have recieved Ian Kennedy or Phillip Hughes, I would not be upset. The 3 pitchers do add pitching depth which is VERY badly needed. We need potential #1-2 type starting pitchers, and we did not get that. The biggest prospect we recieved was Tabata. ... Using common logic, this trade points strongly to a potential trade with Bay within the next year. Unless we are banking on Tabata, McCuthchen, or McLouth to be busts, then where is the room for Bay in a year or two???? We needed middle infielders before we needed another outfielder. Outfield depth is actually okay.


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 Post subject: Re: Wasnt there much better deal???
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:08 am 
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Care to point out which of Nady or Marte was CC Sabathia. Because that is what it takes to get elite prospects, or at least what most consdier elite.

Like Cashman said, in ST, he wouldn't even have considered giving up those guys for these guys.

ZM

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