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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 9:26 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
For the same reason Freddy Sanchez his hitting third, lol.


Adam Laroche won a batting title? And has a career average over .300? Huh. Did not know that.

And your double standard raises its ugly head again. For Adam LaRoche, all that matters is how he's hitting now. For Freddy Sanchez, all that matters is how he hit two years ago. I've got news for you: two years ago LaRoche hit better than Sanchez.
Bucfan wrote:
Are you insane? You have no problem with Laroche's hitting?

And again we see the classic Bucfan tactic of making up the other guys words from thin air. As you know, I never said I didn't have a problem with LaRoche's hitting. I merely find it amusing that you think LaRoche is the anti-Christ, but Sanchez is just fine. Face it: they're both off to terrible starts for the second consecutive year.

Bucfan wrote:
Do you think that he will end this year with an OPS over .800? Not likely at all. His OBP will hover around .330-.340 once the Pirates are 15 games out. His slugging is going to be aabout the same as last year. In other words, completely below average.


Completely below average, just like Sanchez was last year? Not that you have a problem with Sanchez being completely below average.

I wouldn't be surprised a bit if LaRoche finished the season with an OPS over .800. He did last year, and his OPS for April this year is only 16 points lower than it was last April.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 11:56 am 
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Willton wrote:
If you want to complain about LaRoche's performance on the whole and not about his performance in a month's time, then I could understand your complaint. But the fact is that you are focusing SOLELY on LaRoche's poor display in a month's time, as if you expect him to hit like that the entire year despite LaRoche's history. Then you jump up and down about Freddy's 2-year-old batting title when someone else points out Freddy's similarly disappointing play in that month's time, as if that exonerates him from the same criticism you give LaRoche. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.


sisyphus wrote:
And your double standard raises its ugly head again. For Adam LaRoche, all that matters is how he's hitting now. For Freddy Sanchez, all that matters is how he hit two years ago. I've got news for you: two years ago LaRoche hit better than Sanchez.


The only issue you have with comments that I have made about Laroche is that Sanchez also sucks so far.

Could you please point to one statement by me that gives Sanchez a pass on his poor hitting this year?

Or that indicates his failures so far are acceptable?

Until then, STFU.

With emphasis on the "FU."


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:29 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
[The only issue you have with comments that I have made about Laroche is that Sanchez also sucks so far.

Could you please point to one statement by me that gives Sanchez a pass on his poor hitting this year?


I usually stay away from Laroche posts, so I had to go back and read this thread to see why it's up to three pages.

Curiosity may end up killing this cat, but wtf? You say Laroche sucks right now, why bat him 6th. Most would agree with you. Econosisy decides to attack this obvious no brainer assessment by questioning why you haven't gone after Sanchez for similar reasons. What's weird is that you DID attack Sanchez, in the very first post:

Bucfan wrote:
Oh, gee, Bucfan is picking on Laroche. Well, to mollify Econo and Sisy, if Freddy Sanchez swings at another pitch that lands two feet in front of the plate, I am going to scream. He has done exactly this in consecutive games.


If I was a betting man, I'm willing to wager that had you not mentioned "Econo and Sisy", they would have never even givien this thread a cursory glance.

Weird, arguing over the merits of Laroche batting 6th, using Sanchez as the "evidence".


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:59 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
The only issue you have with comments that I have made about Laroche is that Sanchez also sucks so far.

Could you please point to one statement by me that gives Sanchez a pass on his poor hitting this year?

Or that indicates his failures so far are acceptable?

Bucfan wrote:
Adam Laroche won a batting title? And has a career average over .300? Huh. Did not know that.

I'd go back further, but thanks to some rogue hackers, I can only go back as far as late April.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Willton wrote:
If you want to complain about LaRoche's performance on the whole and not about his performance in a month's time, then I could understand your complaint. But the fact is that you are focusing SOLELY on LaRoche's poor display in a month's time, as if you expect him to hit like that the entire year despite LaRoche's history. Then you jump up and down about Freddy's 2-year-old batting title when someone else points out Freddy's similarly disappointing play in that month's time, as if that exonerates him from the same criticism you give LaRoche. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.


sisyphus wrote:
And your double standard raises its ugly head again. For Adam LaRoche, all that matters is how he's hitting now. For Freddy Sanchez, all that matters is how he hit two years ago. I've got news for you: two years ago LaRoche hit better than Sanchez.


The only issue you have with comments that I have made about Laroche is that Sanchez also sucks so far.

Could you please point to one statement by me that gives Sanchez a pass on his poor hitting this year?

Or that indicates his failures so far are acceptable?

Until then, STFU.

With emphasis on the "FU."

See Econo's post, as he beat me to pointing out that you don't think that Freddy Sanchez shouldn't be moved down in the order because he won a batting title two years ago in a season that was completely inferior to the one that LaRoche had in the same year.

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Last edited by sisyphus on Mon May 05, 2008 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:13 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
Bucfan wrote:
[The only issue you have with comments that I have made about Laroche is that Sanchez also sucks so far.

Could you please point to one statement by me that gives Sanchez a pass on his poor hitting this year?


I usually stay away from Laroche posts, so I had to go back and read this thread to see why it's up to three pages.

Curiosity may end up killing this cat, but wtf? You say Laroche sucks right now, why bat him 6th. Most would agree with you. Econosisy decides to attack this obvious no brainer assessment by questioning why you haven't gone after Sanchez for similar reasons. What's weird is that you DID attack Sanchez, in the very first post:

Bucfan wrote:
Oh, gee, Bucfan is picking on Laroche. Well, to mollify Econo and Sisy, if Freddy Sanchez swings at another pitch that lands two feet in front of the plate, I am going to scream. He has done exactly this in consecutive games.


If I was a betting man, I'm willing to wager that had you not mentioned "Econo and Sisy", they would have never even givien this thread a cursory glance.

Weird, arguing over the merits of Laroche batting 6th, using Sanchez as the "evidence".

That zipping sound is the entire point flying over your head.

I'm not arguing the merits of LaRoche batting 6th using Sanchez as evidence. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to scream that one player who is off to a bad start should be moved down in the order while saying that another player who is off to a bad start should bat at the top of the order.

I said in my first post in the thread that LaRoche isn't being dropped lower for the same reason that Sanchez is batting third. Perhaps I should have made myself clearer. LaRoche isn't being dropped lower in the order because he historically gets over his problems and hits better as the year goes on. That's the same reason that Sanchez isn't being dropped lower in the order. Sorry, I didn't think I had to spell out the obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:18 pm 
Until LaRoche proves he can hit this year, he should be glad he's even in the lineup. I'm OK with him batting 7th or 8th if he's in there at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:25 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
That zipping sound is the entire point flying over your head.


Well, if my head was a big as yours, I probably wouldn't have that problem now, would I?

sisyphus wrote:
I'm not arguing the merits of LaRoche batting 6th using Sanchez as evidence. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to scream that one player who is off to a bad start should be moved down in the order while saying that another player who is off to a bad start should bat at the top of the order.


I'm reading EXACTLY what's been printed in THIS thread. Please point me to where someone said Freddy should stay "at the top of the order".

sisyphus wrote:
Sorry, I didn't think I had to spell out the obvious.


Based on what's been said in this thread, obvious to whom?


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:25 pm 
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Am I not correct in thinking that Freddy and La Roach are supposed, in a way, to be doing two different jobs?
LaRoche was brought in to provide the power in the middle of the lineup - the guy you look forward to coming up when the bases are juiced. I don't recall him ever doing this (for the Pirates) even when his personal stats improve. I think he is a lollygagger.
Freddy on the other hand is a gamer who is only required to hit bloop singles and suchlike, any power is a bonus.

I know which one I'd rather have on my team.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:28 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Until LaRoche proves he can hit this year, he should be glad he's even in the lineup. I'm OK with him batting 7th or 8th if he's in there at all.


Sorry, you obviously haven't read the Sisyphus dictum that states Laroche can only bat 7th or 8th if Sanchez bats 9th.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
Am I not correct in thinking that Freddy and La Roach are supposed, in a way, to be doing two different jobs?
LaRoche was brought in to provide the power in the middle of the lineup - the guy you look forward to coming up when the bases are juiced. I don't recall him ever doing this (for the Pirates) even when his personal stats improve. I think he is a lollygagger.
Freddy on the other hand is a gamer who is only required to hit bloop singles and suchlike, any power is a bonus.

I know which one I'd rather have on my team.


No, you're incorrect in thinking that. Someone will be along shortly to tell you why.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:56 pm 
Argentum wrote:
Elmer wrote:
Until LaRoche proves he can hit this year, he should be glad he's even in the lineup. I'm OK with him batting 7th or 8th if he's in there at all.


Sorry, you obviously haven't read the Sisyphus dictum that states Laroche can only bat 7th or 8th if Sanchez bats 9th.


I think that's John Russell's call.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:58 pm 
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"Dictum" ... when did we start using real words around here?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 3:04 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
"Dictum" ... when did we start using real words around here?

ZM


You actually read my post? You like me; you really like me!

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:23 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
Until LaRoche proves he can hit this year, he should be glad he's even in the lineup. I'm OK with him batting 7th or 8th if he's in there at all.

And, of course, you feel the same way about Sanchez, right?

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:25 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
That zipping sound is the entire point flying over your head.


Well, if my head was a big as yours, I probably wouldn't have that problem now, would I?

sisyphus wrote:
I'm not arguing the merits of LaRoche batting 6th using Sanchez as evidence. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to scream that one player who is off to a bad start should be moved down in the order while saying that another player who is off to a bad start should bat at the top of the order.


I'm reading EXACTLY what's been printed in THIS thread. Please point me to where someone said Freddy should stay "at the top of the order".

sisyphus wrote:
Sorry, I didn't think I had to spell out the obvious.


Based on what's been said in this thread, obvious to whom?

Obvious to anyone with the reading comprehension skills of a fourth grader.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 5:41 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
Am I not correct in thinking that Freddy and La Roach are supposed, in a way, to be doing two different jobs?
LaRoche was brought in to provide the power in the middle of the lineup - the guy you look forward to coming up when the bases are juiced. I don't recall him ever doing this (for the Pirates) even when his personal stats improve. I think he is a lollygagger.
Freddy on the other hand is a gamer who is only required to hit bloop singles and suchlike, any power is a bonus.

I know which one I'd rather have on my team.

No, they both have the same job, which is to create runs for their team. They do this in different ways, but that's their job. Sanchez gets more singles and doubles, LaRoche gets more walks and home runs. LaRoche has had the better career at the plate thus far (OPS+ of 109 to Sanchez's 99), but Sanchez plays a position that is far more demanding defensively, so the bar is lower for him. Both are below average hitters for their positions, but Sanchez is closer to average than LaRoche. If it's two outs in the bottom of the ninth with the tying run on second, I'd rather have Sanchez up. If it's the bottom of the ninth, two outs, down a run and nobody on base, I'd rather have LaRoche at the plate.

But this argument isn't about which guy is the better hitter. They're both below average, and they both suck right now. It's about Bucfan's apparent vendetta against LaRoche, as indicated by his double standard.

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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:00 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Obvious to anyone with the reading comprehension skills of a fourth grader.


Are you trying to insinuate something here? I can't tell.

My cipherin' skills might not be up to those of Jethro Bodine, but did you actually answer these:

Argentum wrote:
I'm reading EXACTLY what's been printed in THIS thread. Please point me to where someone said Freddy should stay "at the top of the order".


Bucfan wrote:
Could you please point to one statement by me that gives Sanchez a pass on his poor hitting this year?


As the answers to these specific questions greatly impact the validity of your claim, perhaps you can indulge me?

Also, even though Sanchez and Laroche have stunk this year, at one point in April Sanchez was actually batting 150 OPS points higher than Laroche. The present conversation as is, that's the equivalent of a fresh terd vs one of those white decaying ones found in many backyards across the good ole US of A (and the UK for that matter - can't leave you out Bertie)! So I would proffer that even if Bucfan made the comments you are ascribing to him, you need to prove that those comments were made when Laroche was NOT the decaying white terd. 150 OPS points between two players is huge, no matter how bad they are.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 6:29 pm 
I agree. Both have been bad, LaRoche has been worse. Also, this is the second April in a row he's been a turd so he gets to free pass in my book.


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 Post subject: Re: Why is Laroche hitting as high as 6th?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 7:15 pm 
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Argentum:

You made me bust up three different times in this thread.

Wow, you do not get the argentum medal - you get the aurum medal!!

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Argentum's Medal - Funniest Series of Posts, 2008


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