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 Post subject: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:53 pm 
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This doesn't bode well for the next two or three years in my opinion. There are no hitting prospects at all. The 2nd to last paragraph is depressing as well.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/pr ... 11137.html

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:58 pm 
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Anyone else not like DK doing the BA top 10? I would like to see someone outside of Pittsburgh rank the system. I kind of felt the same way when Perrotto did it. Same old stuff with DK.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:01 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
Anyone else not like DK doing the BA top 10? I would like to see someone outside of Pittsburgh rank the system. I kind of felt the same way when Perrotto did it. Same old stuff with DK.


Who knows the system and the players better than Dejan Kovacevic? If someone outside of Pittsburgh ranked the system, they would do so with less knowledge than Kovacevic. And in the article, Kovacevic references his discussions with scouts inside and outside the PBC.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:05 pm 
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I don't mind DK doing it at all. I trust his judgement and his contacts. He wasn't blowing smoke in his assessment that's for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:06 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I don't mind DK doing it at all. I trust his judgement and his contacts. He wasn't blowing smoke in his assessment that's for sure.


I'm with you.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:07 pm 
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I'm not sure there are "no hitting prospects", Sanchez is #2, Marte #4, and D'arnaud and Lambo are both projected as regulars. We do have 4 above average bats already in Pittsburgh. I actually like alot of the below the radar hitters like Hague, Holt, Harrison, et al. Those guys could provide solid depth options in the near future.

The part comparing the Altoona 4 to Duke, Maholm, and Gorzo is probably true. That's not a bad thing though all three of those guys zoomed through the minors and had quality big league seasons as starters. If Duke's elbow had held up or Gorzo hadn't been destroyed by Tracy who knows how they would have turned out. If 3 of the Altoona 4 become mid rotation starters we'll be very happy.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
If 3 of the Altoona 4 become mid rotation starters we'll be very happy.


But still under .500.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 pm 
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I am not saying DK is not knowledgeable and his stuff is not good. All I am saying is we already get his analysis on daily basis. I already know what he thinks or knows. And I also know his emotions get involved. I just would like a baseball analyst to do this report.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:47 pm 
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By the way, what's this all about?

Best Defensive Infielder: Argenis Diaz

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:48 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
I am not saying DK is not knowledgeable and his stuff is not good. All I am saying is we already get his analysis on daily basis. I already know what he thinks or knows. And I also know his emotions get involved. I just would like a baseball analyst to do this report.


I don't think Kovacevic's emotions affected his ranking of prospects in the PBC system. I really don't. He referenced numerous baseball analysts and scouts with whom he spoke to compile his report, and I believe he gave an honest evaluation.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:51 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
I am not saying DK is not knowledgeable and his stuff is not good. All I am saying is we already get his analysis on daily basis. I already know what he thinks or knows. And I also know his emotions get involved. I just would like a baseball analyst to do this report.


I don't think Kovacevic's emotions affected his ranking of prospects in the PBC system. I really don't. He referenced numerous baseball analysts and scouts with whom he spoke to compile his report, and I believe he gave an honest evaluation.


DK is a good reporter and writer. With that said, his emotions are his weakness. He is a die-hard Pirate fan. Anyone who is an old timer on this board knows this. And it has shown in his analysis over the past couple seasons. See the criticism of some trades of players DK liked on a personal basis.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Quote:
Best Defensive Infielder: Argenis Diaz


Is he even still in the organization?


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:55 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
By the way, what's this all about?

Best Defensive Infielder: Argenis Diaz


I'm thinking he meant Pedro Ciriaco.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:08 pm 
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Note from Dejan Kovacevic on this list, as set forth on the PG+ site:

Baseball America's list of the Pirates' top 10 prospects are out. It's the first time I've authored the list, but the final call on all choices for the top 10 -- and, later, the top 30 for the big Handbook -- are made by BA's supremely knowledgeable editors.

Accordingly, the final call on the choices for this list were made by Baseball America's editors, not DK.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:18 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
Note from Dejan Kovacevic on this list, as set forth on the PG+ site:

Baseball America's list of the Pirates' top 10 prospects are out. It's the first time I've authored the list, but the final call on all choices for the top 10 -- and, later, the top 30 for the big Handbook -- are made by BA's supremely knowledgeable editors.

Accordingly, the final call on the choices for this list were made by Baseball America's editors, not DK.


Well, that's better.

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Some tart phrasing and the suggestion that NH should've been shown the door with Russell aside, DK's not really saying anything about the minor league system that isn't already common knowledge: it's thin on bats and the real blue-chip talent is years away from Pittsburgh. Is this news to anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Two points to be addressed in the rankings. First, the relative lack of hitters in the top-10 is a product of the fact that the best positional players are now on the team, and the fact that the Pirates have loaded up on high-end pitching talent.

This is not a situation where a middling reliever is ranked the 7th best prospect, showing the serious lack of bats in the minor league system. This is a situation where the pitching talent is simply too good to keep out of the top-10. Guys like Taillon, Allie, Heredia, Morris, Owens, etc. That is why a prospect like Lambo does not crack the top-10.

Second, the talent rankings will be altered if Rendon is healthy and selected by the Pirates. Jim Callis ranks Rendon's bat as above Bryce Harper, and many scouts say that if Rendon and Harper were in the same draft, they take Rendon since he plays the infield. They see Harper as an OF'er long-term.

So add Rendon to that list, along with Sanchez, together with the four already in the majors. The analysis as to the bats in the Pirates organization changes.

"But they need help with pitching ..." Look at the arms ready to join the roster.

Finally, the statement by DK in the report that "scouts outside the organization aren't nearly as excited about the collection of arms as those on the inside. Some say it isn't as talented as the group that brought Zach Duke, Tom Gorzelanny and Paul Maholm to Pittsburgh a few years ago" is very interesting.

I don't doubt that DK has spoken to scouts and obtained this view, but the simple fact is that Owens and Wilson throw much harder than did Maholm and Duke (post-2005). I watched Maholm against the Dodgers in his first season, and was kind of disappointed in his lack of velocity (85-87 mph).

Owens throws at 91-92 with superb control. Wilson deals at 92-94 mph, but with much less command than Owens. Morris throws at 93-94 mph, and notches up to 96 mph on occasion. The velocity of those pitchers is simply so much greater than the Maholm, Duke, and Gorzellany trio that the comparisons are spotty.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Two points to be addressed in the rankings. First, the relative lack of hitters in the top-10 is a product of the fact that the best positional players are now on the team, and the fact that the Pirates have loaded up on high-end pitching talent.

This is not a situation where a middling reliever is ranked the 7th best prospect, showing the serious lack of bats in the minor league system. This is a situation where the pitching talent is simply too good to keep out of the top-10. Guys like Taillon, Allie, Heredia, Morris, Owens, etc. That is why a prospect like Lambo does not crack the top-10.

Second, the talent rankings will be altered if Rendon is healthy and selected by the Pirates. Jim Callis ranks Rendon's bat as above Bryce Harper, and many scouts say that if Rendon and Harper were in the same draft, they take Rendon since he plays the infield. They see Harper as an OF'er long-term.

So add Rendon to that list, along with Sanchez, together with the four already in the majors. The analysis as to the bats in the Pirates organization changes.

"But they need help with pitching ..." Look at the arms ready to join the roster.

Finally, the statement by DK in the report that "scouts outside the organization aren't nearly as excited about the collection of arms as those on the inside. Some say it isn't as talented as the group that brought Zach Duke, Tom Gorzelanny and Paul Maholm to Pittsburgh a few years ago" is very interesting.

I don't doubt that DK has spoken to scouts and obtained this view, but the simple fact is that Owens and Wilson throw much harder than did Maholm and Duke (post-2005). I watched Maholm against the Dodgers in his first season, and was kind of disappointed in his lack of velocity (85-87 mph).

Owens throws at 91-92 with superb control. Wilson deals at 92-94 mph, but with much less command than Owens. Morris throws at 93-94 mph, and notches up to 96 mph on occasion. The velocity of those pitchers is simply so much greater than the Maholm, Duke, and Gorzellany trio that the comparisons are spotty.


+1

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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:49 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
This is not a situation where a middling reliever is ranked the 7th best prospect, showing the serious lack of bats in the minor league system. This is a situation where the pitching talent is simply too good to keep out of the top-10. Guys like Taillon, Allie, Heredia, Morris, Owens, etc. That is why a prospect like Lambo does not crack the top-10.


This isn't accurate. There's no doubt the Pirates' system is heavy with pitchers, which is good. But whether those hitting prospects rank 2nd or 13th, there simply aren't any impact bats right now. John Sickels just did his evaluation of the Pirate's system and gave only one hitter a grade higher than a C+. That's troubling regardless of the graduation of Alvarez, Walker, and Tabata.


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 Post subject: Re: BA's Top Ten Pirates Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Penguin wrote:
John Sickels just did his evaluation of the Pirate's system and gave only one hitter a grade higher than a C+. That's troubling regardless of the graduation of Alvarez, Walker, and Tabata.


I read somewhere that of the Top 30 players in the Royals system, every player was ranked above a C+. I'm not sure when or where I read this but I'll do some digging.

It certainly doesn't bode well that the Buccos have nothing cooking on the farm.

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