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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:11 pm 
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LOL.....................I am with you. Even ESPN has expounded the virtues of our outfield. Maybe the worm has turned.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:46 am 
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Corsair wrote:
And why pray tell is that? I will take a productive Major League outfield at the right price anyday instead of waiting for the next "guatanteed can't miss Chad Hermensen, Trey Beamon, JJ Davis etc. etc.

I have seen nothing in McCuthchon that indicates he is ready to replace any of our outfielders.

This is the best outfield we have seen since Bond, Van Slyke and Bonilla. Let's enjoy it. I am with Smizik on this one.


You're kidding right? You don't think, regardless of your own opinion, that McCutchen will be the starting CF next year? There is no way they throw him back in AAA for another season, nor should they. It's his time. His numbers may not be player of the year numbers but they have been consistently solid all year. Plus Kyle Stark and scouts have given him glowing remarks about not only his skills, but intangibles, pitch recognition, knowledge of the strike zone, etc. If he becomes the next Chad Hermansen then that is unfortunate but it's time to find out. I love Nady but his trade value will never be higher. And as someone put it in another thread trade him now before he injures himself again, which he always seems to do. He says he likes it in Pittsburgh, but he never said he would stay here when the time comes. Boras is his agent...he will test free agency. The A's do this all the time. Trade an important player but either acquire someone or have someone ready so they don't miss a beat. It's time the Pirates try this approach.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:36 am 
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It's not just Smizik. Read DK's article in today's PPG:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08199/897507-63.stm

If we had won just six more games and were only 6 GB, would that alter anyone's view on how to proceed trade-wise?

It would be nice to think that we could keep the team as it is and pay cash to get some help with the pitching. Is that allowed or do players actually have to be swapped?

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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:30 am 
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Bertie wrote:

If we had won just six more games and were only 6 GB, would that alter anyone's view on how to proceed trade-wise?



No.

I'd have a hard time believing we would be 6 games better than the Cubs and Brewers the rest of the year.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:56 am 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
There are many more reasons that I watch the game other than who wins or loses. Your myopic view of the team is your business. It does not enter into mine. IF it is all about wins and losses for you, then you suffer in the long run. A bad day at the yard or watching a game on the satellite is better than not.


So you like to watch baseball...thats great. But your team of choice is the Pirates which happens to be mine also. I have supported the major sports teams in Pgh. I dont root for another baseball team. The other teams go through spells of losing....I understand that...and supported the Pirates untill 2001 when it was crystal clear what their priority was. However your(& many others) myopic view blocks out the fact that the way the team has conducted their business has not been about putting the best product on the field. In other words you dont care about the effort being made...and not by the players....it is not their fault. It is not just bad luck or bad choices by past GMs. You do not lose for as record breaking long as the Pirates have. Ownership turned their back to the fans and untill their actions speak louder than thier spin you can have all the losing fun you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:39 am 
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I will.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:17 pm 
PirateParrot wrote:
Corsair wrote:
And why pray tell is that? I will take a productive Major League outfield at the right price anyday instead of waiting for the next "guatanteed can't miss Chad Hermensen, Trey Beamon, JJ Davis etc. etc.

I have seen nothing in McCuthchon that indicates he is ready to replace any of our outfielders.

This is the best outfield we have seen since Bond, Van Slyke and Bonilla. Let's enjoy it. I am with Smizik on this one.


You're kidding right? You don't think, regardless of your own opinion, that McCutchen will be the starting CF next year? There is no way they throw him back in AAA for another season, nor should they. It's his time. His numbers may not be player of the year numbers but they have been consistently solid all year. Plus Kyle Stark and scouts have given him glowing remarks about not only his skills, but intangibles, pitch recognition, knowledge of the strike zone, etc. If he becomes the next Chad Hermansen then that is unfortunate but it's time to find out. I love Nady but his trade value will never be higher. And as someone put it in another thread trade him now before he injures himself again, which he always seems to do. He says he likes it in Pittsburgh, but he never said he would stay here when the time comes. Boras is his agent...he will test free agency. The A's do this all the time. Trade an important player but either acquire someone or have someone ready so they don't miss a beat. It's time the Pirates try this approach.


McCutchen definitely deserves to be on the big club. He should get first shot at CF next year, and I expect him to grab the job and run with it. That said, the Pirates would be foolish to BANK on that. Too many times in years past, the Pirates give themselves only one option at a position. Then, when injuries happen or things don't pan out, they're in trouble.

Keeping a quality backup or two around will be invaluable next year.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:12 pm 
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Corsair
By keeping the outfield together we will have the best in baseball(if they continue) for 1 more year. You don't think those guys will be signed after that do you?

Now the problem is how do you become a winner? It's clear to everyone, that we need starting pitchers. Yes, he could maybe sign one for a year from the market, but he would be gone in a year.

So, by 2010 we have no Bay, no Nady, no FA starter, no Wilson and no one to replace them.

We're just not at a stage where the Brewers are. One player does not make us formatible, and we're going to lose the others. Why not try to build a complete team by trading for prospects?

It is short sighted to worry about today when it really hurts your future possibilities.

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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:07 am 
bullishhitter wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
There are many more reasons that I watch the game other than who wins or loses. Your myopic view of the team is your business. It does not enter into mine. IF it is all about wins and losses for you, then you suffer in the long run. A bad day at the yard or watching a game on the satellite is better than not.


So you like to watch baseball...thats great. But your team of choice is the Pirates which happens to be mine also. I have supported the major sports teams in Pgh. I dont root for another baseball team. The other teams go through spells of losing....I understand that...and supported the Pirates untill 2001 when it was crystal clear what their priority was. However your(& many others) myopic view blocks out the fact that the way the team has conducted their business has not been about putting the best product on the field. In other words you dont care about the effort being made...and not by the players....it is not their fault. It is not just bad luck or bad choices by past GMs. You do not lose for as record breaking long as the Pirates have. Ownership turned their back to the fans and untill their actions speak louder than thier spin you can have all the losing fun you want.


I agree with most of what you say about Pirates owenership, BH. My problem is I enjoy going to the games too much to stop. I know I shouldn't, but I do anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:13 am 
BBF wrote:
Listen, I'm not saying I don't think Nutting shouldn't spend more. I'm saying there is a limit. If he spends above that limit, bad things happen. Ask Howard Baldwin. If Nutting was pocketing $20 mil when the payroll was under $50 mil, that means $70 mil is probably close to the magic number. Are you suggesting teams can't compete with that payroll, if it is spent wisely?

Also, don't forget, a pitcher of any worth is going to require a multi-year contract. You'll probably be talking 5 year, $15 mil or more per year for a top of the rotation guy. So even if Nutting can afford to go to $80 mil, what happens when McCutchen, Alvarez, or whomever reaches arbitration and you start having to pay for them? What happens if the pitcher blows a shoulder?

Now, I'm not saying we shouldn't be taking risks. I'm saying the smarter risk is to acquire that pitcher through a trade, when you have him for 6 years at a controllable cost.

Further, unless you plan on going to the playoffs NEXT YEAR, why keep Nady? Or do you think we can keep Bay and resign Nady AND bring in a free agent pitcher?

I want Nutting to spend just like everyone else does, but I'd rather see $75 mil spent wisely, with a core of young players to cheer for, than to see $85-90 mil thrown around to rental players.


I agree and disagree BBF. I totally agree that they need to spend more, and I agree there is a limit on what they should spend (the Howard Baldwin phenomenon). I also agree that keeping Nady would be unwise.

I don't agree that the team should just assume it won't contend for the playoffs next year, though. I don't believe in raising the white flag before a season begins.


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 Post subject: Re: Smizik today
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:50 am 
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I like baseball. <period>
The Pirates happen to be my favorite team. <sucker in your eyes>
I would rather watch 25 years of losing baseball
than to "buy" a winning team. Whether they can afford it or not.
I would much rather see a team, like we have on the field today,
make .500. Than to see a "bought team" make it to the series.
Call me a sucker. Integrity is planned, .... then built.
Gotta love the yankees...... 50 years ago.....

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