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 Post subject: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:56 pm 
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The Tribune Review had an article this morning giving out grades to the Pirates...
They did it based Outfield, Infield, Starting Pitching, Bullpen, Catcher, Front Office, Coaching Staff

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 77608.html


So I figured, we could grade the team ourselves...Each position gets a grade, plus bench, starting rotation, bullpen, coaching staff, front office

Grades based on the A,B,C,D,F standards...

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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:32 pm 
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My Grades:

Catcher: B...Doumit's offense makes up for any defensive flaw.

1st Base:C...LaRoche has been killing the ball in recent weeks, but the horrible April and May leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

2nd Base:D...Freddy needs to go on the DL to get his shoulder right, maybe even shut him down for an extended period of time to get him right.

3rd Base:C...Bautista started slow, then warmed up, and has settled somewhere in the middle again.

Shortstop:B...Jack is needed as much for his bat as he is his glove, he was missed early in the year.

Leftfield:A...Jason Bay is healthy and hitting the ball with pop, taking walks, running, and hasn't been too bad defensively either.

Centerfield:A...Nate has done everything and more, leads the team in HR's and RBI's, has played a very very good CF.

Rightfield:B...Nady was very hot and hit well and played very good defense, but his injuries keep popping up.

Bench:B...Doug Meint has been a huge pick up, and sparkplug for this team, Chavez has been a surprise, Jason Michaels has been superb, Rivas has filled in nice at 2nd, Gomez is solid.

Starting Pitching:D...Paul Maholm has the weight of the world on his shoulders, Phil Doumatrait was a surprise, Gorzo and Snell have stunk it up.

Bullpen:B...Marte and Grabow have been huge this year, Capps was solid until his injury.

Coaching Staff:B...John Russell has gotten alot of production out of players who have not been known for doing so, Don Long has to be loving the offense, Jeff Andrews probably needs a new pair of shoes after each series for as many trips to the mound he has had to make.

Front Office:B...Made some nice additions in the limited time they had in the offseason, made mistakes but were quick to fix them, very good draft, if Pedro signs it'll be an even better one.

Overall given the circumstances I'd give the team a C for the 1st half...They fight hard game after game, and with this offense arent out of many games, despite the crappy pitching this year.

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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:59 am 
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On a scale of A to what?

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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:34 pm 
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naddan, I do like most of the grades. I would upgrade many of the offensive ones and downgrade many of the pitching. One can't argue with the numbers, and they suggest that the Pirates have the fourth-best offense in the NL, and by far the worst pitching.

I would give Doumit an A. He's been one of the most consistent hitters on the team, and I wouldn't downgrade him for an injury that he could not avoid, and came back from earlier than expected. Bottom line is that he has the best SLG and OPS on the team and should be our cleanup hitter for the foreseeable future.

I would also lean toward giving Nady an A as well. The injury highlighted his needed presence in the lineup. While he was there, the Pirates had one of the five best offenses in the majors, without him, the Pirates are only one of the top ten.

Now to the downgrades...

Freddy Sanchez gets an F. He is the worst second baseman in baseball this year. I understand he's battling injury, and has shown tremendous effort all year. Facts are facts though. The guy doesn't hit for power like he did in leading the majors in doubles two years ago, and now he can't even hit for average. I wish the Bucs had any kind of prospect at short or second in the minors so they could put Freddy on the DL like they need to. Even so, I'd like Russel to use Gomez and Rivas more. Hopefully any trades the Bucs make include some middle infielders.

Starting pitching needs to be an F, it just does.

Bullpen of B may seem right, but I think B just seems like a good grade to give them based on how much they have been used. Fact is, if the bullpen could have held some teams to 7-8 runs rather than 10-12, the Bucs may have won a few more games this year. Considering the team is only 6 games below .500, a few games would mean a lot. I would be inclined to give the bullpen a D, despite a few standouts.

Coaching staff gets a C. Any idiot could see that Doumit needed to be the starting catcher, and McLouth the starting center fielder. Tracy, obviously was less than an idiot. Some reports debate whether he was present during many of the games last year. The C results in the tremendous regression of the Pirates best two pitchers. These two did lose a lot of the stuff that made them so good last year, but they also lost the mental ability to pitch. That is really the only thing coaches can work on, and Russel and Andrews have both failed miserably at it.

Front office gets an incomplete. Sure, the team has overachieved to an extent, but not too many big moves have been made. That, in itself is probably good, but surely there do need to be moves made at some point, right? Not making a trade for Matt Morris this year will be a big improvement.


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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:46 pm 
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psubar12 wrote:
naddan, I do like most of the grades. I would upgrade many of the offensive ones and downgrade many of the pitching. One can't argue with the numbers, and they suggest that the Pirates have the fourth-best offense in the NL, and by far the worst pitching.

I would give Doumit an A. He's been one of the most consistent hitters on the team, and I wouldn't downgrade him for an injury that he could not avoid, and came back from earlier than expected. Bottom line is that he has the best SLG and OPS on the team and should be our cleanup hitter for the foreseeable future.

I would also lean toward giving Nady an A as well. The injury highlighted his needed presence in the lineup. While he was there, the Pirates had one of the five best offenses in the majors, without him, the Pirates are only one of the top ten.

Now to the downgrades...

Freddy Sanchez gets an F. He is the worst second baseman in baseball this year. I understand he's battling injury, and has shown tremendous effort all year. Facts are facts though. The guy doesn't hit for power like he did in leading the majors in doubles two years ago, and now he can't even hit for average. I wish the Bucs had any kind of prospect at short or second in the minors so they could put Freddy on the DL like they need to. Even so, I'd like Russel to use Gomez and Rivas more. Hopefully any trades the Bucs make include some middle infielders.

Starting pitching needs to be an F, it just does.

Bullpen of B may seem right, but I think B just seems like a good grade to give them based on how much they have been used. Fact is, if the bullpen could have held some teams to 7-8 runs rather than 10-12, the Bucs may have won a few more games this year. Considering the team is only 6 games below .500, a few games would mean a lot. I would be inclined to give the bullpen a D, despite a few standouts.

Coaching staff gets a C. Any idiot could see that Doumit needed to be the starting catcher, and McLouth the starting center fielder. Tracy, obviously was less than an idiot. Some reports debate whether he was present during many of the games last year. The C results in the tremendous regression of the Pirates best two pitchers. These two did lose a lot of the stuff that made them so good last year, but they also lost the mental ability to pitch. That is really the only thing coaches can work on, and Russel and Andrews have both failed miserably at it.

Front office gets an incomplete. Sure, the team has overachieved to an extent, but not too many big moves have been made. That, in itself is probably good, but surely there do need to be moves made at some point, right? Not making a trade for Matt Morris this year will be a big improvement.


How are you throwing the manager and coaching staff under the bus for Snell and Gorzo regressing. When actually will someone make these guys accountable for their actions. Jeez, this stuff drives me crazy.

Any idiot could see McLouth and Doumit were ready for everyday? Doumit couldn't stay in the lineup long enough for anyone to see what the heck he could do, McLouth I had believed all along that he would succeed, but he surely had some strong opposition on this board at the beginning of the year.

Front office gets an incomplete? Quality pick-ups off of the waiver wire, hiring a solid management staff around him to effectively scout and develop talent, a great draft, great stance in the trading market(Littlefield would have already dumped Bay for a bag of balls by now), a well established plan of success, and if not for a few pitchers "mailing it in," this season might be a whole lot more interesting. Incomplete? I don't think so, miraculously turning around this team from what Littlefield has done, cannot happen in one season.


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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:48 pm 
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psubar12 wrote:
Starting pitching needs to be an F, it just does.


I was leaning to an F, but between Paul Maholm being pretty solid and finding Phil Doumatrait off waivers gave them the D in my opinion.

You can't fault this manager for the previous manager's blunders in over using Snell and Gorzo, which is what I believe is their problem, it's something we'll have to see if the time on the DL and minors will fix it or suffer through til next year to see if it was over use...

The front office has been very good at finding players to fit a nitch without breaking the bank, and there was no way Morris was getting traded, nobody wanted him, he was too much $$$ and too little talent.

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:29 pm 
My report card:

Catcher: B+ ...Doumit's is a legit threat offensively which makes up for defensive flaws.

1st Base:C - ... A player who doesn't hit until June isn't a "slow starter" or "in a slump" - He's a bad player. He's expected to produce all year. Imagine what the offense would have been like had La Roche played even solidly the first 2.5 months.

2nd Base:F... I believe Freddy is the worst offensive player (regular starter) in baseball, statistically speaking. Given that, I don't see how you give the position anything higher than an F.

3rd Base:C... Very average here. The sad part is, the "3B of the future" Walker can't hit at AAA. Alvarez can't sign soon enough.

Shortstop:B...Wilson has been an A, but the position gets a B in my opinion because of how the others played in his absence.

Leftfield:A... Bay is again a top offensive outfielder, and his defense looks better than in years past.

Centerfield:A- ... McClouth has nice power and very good defense and is quality hitter.

Rightfield:A- ...Nady is another offensive threat. If he could only stay healthy, he'd be an A+ in my book.

Bench:B... Doug and Michaels are what I like in bench guys. Gomez, Rivas, Chavez etc have had their moments too.

Starting Pitching:D- ... Duke and Maholm have been solid, but when Duke and Maholm are your top startes, you know you are in trouble. I need to see more from Dumatrait. Morris/Snell/Gorzo get Fs only because there is not a lower grade.

Bullpen:C...Marte and Grabow have been great. Capps was good early and struggled more recently. But that's only 3 of a 7 man bullpen. The rest of the guys have been between inconsistent and just bad.

Coaching Staff:B...The players apparently love Russell, and therefore want to play for him, which is the most important quality in a manager, in my opinion. The bats are a surprise so props to hitting coach, etc.

Front Office:C... Some good some bad from the front office. The next month will show a lot about them.

Overall grade: C-
I'd call a "C" an average grade, or equivalent to a .500 team. This team has lost more than its one, so I'd put it in the C- range.


Last edited by Elmer on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:32 pm 
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So to sum it up.....it seems like you guys are happy with the exception of Freddy and the starting pitching.


Fair assessment?


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 Post subject: Re: 1st half grades
PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:38 pm 
Jeremy wrote:
So to sum it up.....it seems like you guys are happy with the exception of Freddy and the starting pitching.


Fair assessment?



I'm not "happy" with everything else. I

'm disgusted with Freddy and starting pitching. I'm "happy" with LF, RF, CF, C and SS. Everything else is in between.


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