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 Post subject: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:25 pm
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Location: Ede, The Netherlands
So hello all again...

Intensively followed everything you guys written lately, followed everything about the signings, the youngsters already here now and next years draft...
but all far away from home, and bad internet connections or expensive internet around swiss...

now just back in Holland and wondering.. When do you see improvement and start to turn around?.. because now some batting-quality players are here,
but the pitching with Lincoln ,Owens, Morris, Allie, Taillon & Mc Donald are 1 - 3 years away from us. When IF we draft & sign Rendon is he MLB ready?
What posisitions must Free Agency in combo with Money make this team competitive..?

So in all WHEN are we REALISTICLY good enough to have a winning season again and what players will be there and make an impact..

for me 2011 is still to early because still no depth on quality starters.. so 2012 will make the start of looking up again in my opinion..
but it has to include that some quality bats are locked up for the future when a possible Taillon and Allie come up..
because if not, the pitching will be there, but again the bats are lost...

sorry if this question has been brought up... i must have missed it..


Hugo

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:17 pm 
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I also look for/hope for a turnaround in 2012. I think the team can show improvement next year if Neil can add some good players over the offseason, but .500 seems out of the question considering how bad they are right now.

I hope to see a good right-handed power hitting right fielder added. I know I might be dreaming about that. Also a good starting pitcher or two and a couple good relievers. I want to see the Pirates give up on LaRoche and Milledge because those guys are just not good enough.

It's a long way till next year's draft but I think we will have the #1 pick. I think Rendon is still a kid and at least a few years away.

I still think they are moving in the right direction, but my God the progress is slow.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:22 pm 
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I think 2011 will basically be a "lost" year absent a couple of big-time starting pitcher signings or trades that work out. And I'm not counting on that.

If the Pirates land Anthony Rendon in June 2011, he could *potentially* be ready for the major leagues sometime in 2012. His bat is close and people seem impressed with his glove as well.

I think expecting Taillon or Allie to be up in 2012 is a pipe dream. I believe 2014 is more likely (that's what I've heard from most scouts, anyway). These teenagers will need some time.

The 2012 season will hinge almost entirely (in my view) on the pitchers currently in Altoona. If TWO of the Rudy Owens, Bryan Morris, Jeff Locke and Justin Wilson quartet can be solid major-league starters in 2012, and if Brad Lincoln rounds into a solid starter, and if MacDonald lives up to his promise, and if Ohlendorf can put together a consistent year, THEN the team could actually compete in 2012 with a lineup consisting of Tabata (LF), Walker (2B), McCutchen (CF), Alvarez (1B), Rendon (3B), Sanchez (C), Lambo/Marte (RF) and Ciriaco/Maggi/D'Arnaud (SS).

It's impossible to project into 2013 or 2014 at this point, though hopefully by the latter year one of Taillon or Allie will be pitching in PNC Park and fulfilling his "ace" potential.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:51 pm 
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It could be as early as next year if we miraculously signed Erik Bedard or Justin Duscherer, both legit #1 starters. Unfortunately, we would have to pay double their pricetag to get them to think about coming to Pgh, and I don't see that happening right now. I hope Jeff Clement impresses in the offseason/spring training, because having his HR-hitting bat at 1B and The Legend in RF would help our lineup a lot. I'd look for Ciriaco at SS in 2011. If we're going to have a shortstop hitting < .250, might as well make it one who's young, good defensively, insanely fast and actually shows a little pop.

The Altoona guys all look like they could easily turn into solid middle of the rotation guys which is good if Taillon/Allie develop into the aces we hope they'll be, but doesn't help us a great deal in the next 2 years because we still lack that top-of-the-rotation guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:13 pm 
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tennis08tarheels wrote:
It could be as early as next year if we miraculously signed Erik Bedard or Justin Duscherer, both legit #1 starters.


I don't how you can say that since neither one of them can get through a full season. But if you can get them at a decent price, they might be worth the risk. Just don't expect them to be No. 1s. In fact, don't even expect them to be healthy opening day,

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:23 pm 
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bucco boy wrote:
tennis08tarheels wrote:
It could be as early as next year if we miraculously signed Erik Bedard or Justin Duscherer, both legit #1 starters.


I don't how you can say that since neither one of them can get through a full season. But if you can get them at a decent price, they might be worth the risk. Just don't expect them to be No. 1s. In fact, don't even expect them to be healthy opening day,


If the Pirates are interested in actually competing in 2011, they'll have to take big-money risks like that.

I don't see it happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:27 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
I think expecting Taillon or Allie to be up in 2012 is a pipe dream. I believe 2014 is more likely (that's what I've heard from most scouts, anyway). These teenagers will need some time.


I don't think 2012 is a pipe dream at all for Taillon, 2013 is more likely though. We're not used to elite SP talent, but guys like him have made it to the bigs at age 20 before. Clayton Kershaw was drafted in 2006 and pitched in the bigs less than two years after signing in May 2008. Josh Beckett (who Taillon is always compared too) was drafted in 1999 and debuted in the bigs almost exactly 2 years from his signing date in 2001. This isn't ZVR or Colt Cain we are discussing, this guy is an ace and he will move very fast. My guess is he will start at West Viginia and blow through Bradenton by the end of 2011. That puts him in AA for 2012 and if he's as good as expected there is no reason he can't see Pittsburgh in late 2012. If he isn't here by 2013 then something has gone wrong injury wise.

Anyhow, next year should see the arrival of the Altoona 4 which will make 2011 of major importance for the starting rotation. This year we saw the big bats arrive, next year the arms, then 2012 we start winning something.

Rendon should follow the Longoria/Alvarez path, drafted in 2011, ready for the bigs in 2013. That would be something if he could step in to an up and coming team in 2013 just like Longoria did with the Rays on their 2008 title run. One can dream ...

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:29 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
Altoona 4


Has a nice ring to it. 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:26 pm 
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J_C_Steel wrote:
bucco boy wrote:
tennis08tarheels wrote:
It could be as early as next year if we miraculously signed Erik Bedard or Justin Duscherer, both legit #1 starters.


I don't how you can say that since neither one of them can get through a full season. But if you can get them at a decent price, they might be worth the risk. Just don't expect them to be No. 1s. In fact, don't even expect them to be healthy opening day,


If the Pirates are interested in actually competing in 2011, they'll have to take big-money risks like that.

I don't see it happening.


Personally, I'd rather they stay away from 'Mr. Glass' types like Duscherer or Bedard, unless they come ridiculously cheap.

And even then, I would only want to take a risk on one of them.

More on OP, 2012 looks to be the year that NH's incarnation of the Bucs will be just about all-systems running (minus a pitcher or two)

And if the Bucs do end up with Rendon then... *whistles* I cannot wait for 2013!

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 Post subject: Re: Draft Signings, Our Youngsters in MLB-Land & Rendon
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:13 pm 
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First things first, you have to look at the guys you have now and wonder who will be here ready to re-sign and who just won't pan out. A couple more years into this thing, the players that you can tell are part of the future go ahead and extend their contracts for a price worth the player accepting...don't wait until their up for free agency, take a chance.

Hopefully the players who are figured to not be part of the future leave something in return. More youngsters to stockpile the minors at positions of need or even major league ready players.

In the next couple of years this organization will have to turn things around, show their competitive enough to win and compete for division championships. If that happens, veterans in the free agent market during the offseason might want to play here and help the ever growing talent. Build a winner-veterans will come. Hopefully they'll be at the right price and a place of need. It doesn't matter how many top 5 draft picks you consistently have or how much young talent you bring in, you still have to sprinkle them in with a few "PROVEN" veterans. I'm not talking players past their prime or career utility type players. Talking about men just out of their first contract, in their prime, ready to become all-stars with a few years of major league experience. Quality starting pitchers if they're available. If the upgrade is there, go after it.


Most importantly the pitching will have to get better. The cornerstone of any staff, the starting pitching will have to improve. There are so many looming questions about this area it's not even funny. There are definitely starters in our rotation who can't be considered part of the future. Duke, Maholm. The guys that have been here previously and weren't ready. Are they going to be ready next time? Lincoln, Morton, etc. Are the guys coming behind them going to ready. Owens, Wilson, Morris, Alderson? When will our young power arms be ready? So young.

One thing is certain. The minor league system is starting to stockpile and having depth there is a good thing and allows for good trade bait if done correctly. You have to have that potential in the minors if you're a small market ball club.

Not expecting much success until around the latter part of 2011, becoming a winner by 2012 and a contender by 2013. Hopefully it carries on for many years after that by building a solid foundation.


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