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 Post subject: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:03 am 
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Dodgers Interested In Jack Wilson, C.C. Sabathia
By Tim Dierkes July 4
According to Ken Rosenthal, the Dodgers have jumped into the fray for C.C. Sabathia. They don't have a Matt LaPorta-caliber prospect, but they could make a substantial three-player offer. The Dodgers, being a big market club, could try to sign Sabathia before he hits free agency.

Rosenthal says the Dodgers are simultaneously pursuing Pirates shortstop Jack Wilson. He might require some of the same prospects, so L.A. probably can't get both Wilson and Sabathia. Since Wilson is signed for '09, such an acquisition might allow the Dodgers to let Rafael Furcal walk as a free agent. Based on Ned Colletti's comments to MLB.com, he seems willing to let some talent go to get a regular shortstop.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 3:04 am 
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C.C. wouldn't be a great move for L.A. The Dodgers seem to need to hit more.

I am going to play Devil's Advocate and assume the Pirates may win again in the future.... None of the guys they have now are going to be part of the next winning team they field. As much as I like Jack, anyone on this team is expendable for good prospects.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:53 am 
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He is having a great year since returning from the injury. His market value is as high as can be expected. He is almost for sure gone after 2009 anyway.

It's a no brainer for me. trade him for prospects now. I know we have no decent replacement but who out there thinks we can win this year? No, with our pitching we can not expect anywhere near the break even point.

Are fans going to come or not come to PNC because Jack is or isn't in the line up? Probably not. So, suck it up friends, it's time to move Jack.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:24 pm 
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If Jack is traded now, a MLB SS needs to be in the plans soon to atleast band-aid it til next season...

If you're going to trade Jack now, go for it, but lets get a big time prospect, if not, why not wait til the winter to see who'd be interested?

The only two guys on the team right now that are not trade bait, in my opinion are Nate and Doumit...

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:29 pm 
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Don't the Dodgers have a decent SS prospect (Korean kid, if I am remembering correctly)?


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:32 pm 
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...plus, if the Pirates don't have a winner up their sleeves in the next few years, I would like to see Jack play for a winner before he retires. (actually, the Dodgers aren't much of an improvement...)

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:57 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Don't the Dodgers have a decent SS prospect (Korean kid, if I am remembering correctly)?

Yes, but you know how much Ned Colletti likes good prospects. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:09 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Don't the Dodgers have a decent SS prospect (Korean kid, if I am remembering correctly)?


I looked some things up about the 3 prospects the Dodgers are apparently dangling to teams. One is this SS. I think maybe Taiwanese. He was only listed as their #10 prospect. He has had a couple cups of coffee with the big team and not done much. However the sample size is way too small to evaluate him based on that. Still seems a little shaky. Laroche's brother is the second one and is considered their top prospect. He is currently with the team. The guy I think the Bucs may really have interest in is a AA pitcher named James McDonald. He had 104 K's in 82 IP between A and AA last year. This year(all at AA) he has 93 K's in 90 IP, an ERA of 3.19, a WHIP of 1.18, and has only given up 77 hits(9 HR's). He is apparently the main chip they are dangling in an effort to lure CC Sabathia. Apparently they have offered all 3 for him. The Pirates probably would ask for 2 of them??? Who knows. But I think the pitcher would be of interest and maybe the SS to fill the gap left by Wilson. LaRoche is a 3B which we suddenly would have an over abundance of(provided we sign Alvarez).


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 4:14 pm 
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So tell me, since I can never understand why... CC, a player who impacts once every 5 days, is worth more in asking price than Wilson, who impacts virtually every day, and for the last year, (July to July) has been one if the best hitters in the game?

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:35 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
So tell me, since I can never understand why... CC, a player who impacts once every 5 days, is worth more in asking price than Wilson, who impacts virtually every day, and for the last year, (July to July) has been one if the best hitters in the game?

ZM

Because an every day player is one ninth of a team's offense every day, while a starting pitcher is about 85% of a team's defense every fifth day.

One of the best hitters in the GAME? He hasn't even been the best hitter on his TEAM over that time period. Not to mention his career numbers, which fail to reach the level of mediocrity.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:41 pm 
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If we are, and we might as well be, giving up on the season, then it makes sense to trade Jack now - provided that we get some decent players in return.
Like most fans I expect, I will be sorry to see him go as he has given so much pleasure over the years.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:56 pm 
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Bertie wrote:
If we are, and we might as well be, giving up on the season, then it makes sense to trade Jack now - provided that we get some decent players in return.
Like most fans I expect, I will be sorry to see him go as he has given so much pleasure over the years.


Well said, Bertie.

And ZM, I assume what you meant is that Jack is one of the better hitting SS's in the game, not one of the best hitters. And really, beyond the top tier of SS's (Hanley, Reyes, Rollins, etc) that's probably true. He is almost certainly one of the best SS's "available", if in fact he is.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:09 am 
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Pitching and defense win in the long run. Our team is a prime example of that right now. Also see, Texas Rangers.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:32 am 
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I dont know if we can take 2 laroches at 1st and 3rd.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:08 am 
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Ryann wrote:
I dont know if we can take 2 laroches at 1st and 3rd.


Maybe having little brother poke, tease, and make fun of him for an April slump will break it out earlier...

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:12 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Don't the Dodgers have a decent SS prospect (Korean kid, if I am remembering correctly)?


The Dodgers appear to be offering Ching-lung Hu in trade. He is a guy I have seen in person. He is 5'8" and about 160 lbs. He is not bigger than that, and to the extent that the roster lists him as otherwise, it is wrong.

He hits like Eddie Brinkman. Or maybe (for the real old-timers) Ray Oyler. He is a huge step down offensively from Wilson. I pray that the Pirates do not get Hu for Wilson, even up. That trade would be a disaster.

The Dodgers are also apparently shopping a AA pitcher named James McDonald, a converted position player. McDonal failed as an everyday player twice before being converted a pitcher full-time. He throws a fastball in the low 90's, with a quality slider. He has a BB/K ratio of 141/432 in 400 minor league innings. He has had very good success as a starter in AA.

As between a no-hit, no power SS and a power pitcher who has succeeded in the minors and has a very high K rate in AA, I say take the pitching. For heaven's sake, the Pirates are so desperate for starting pitching that they are going to start Van benschoten . . . and he is simply horrible. Beyond bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:38 pm 
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Ray Oyler. An original Seattle Pilot. THose two couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag. Sorry for the old school.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:44 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Ray Oyler. An original Seattle Pilot. THose two couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag.


Exactly. And Hu is a similar type hitter - no power, slap hitter, no XBH, overpowered by good pitching, no reasonable expectation of getting better with age.

If Eddie Brinkman, Ray Oyler and Ching-lung Hu were in the same line-up, Hu would hit last.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:08 am 
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McDonald is the only interesting person on paper that I have seen in their minors. We don't need another third baseman. We definitely would need a SS in return unless another deal is done simultaneously. Heck, why not throw in Bay and LaRoche and get Either and Loney and McDonald? That way they get the LaRoche Brothers and Jack and Bay get to play closer to home.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to be a Dodger if no C.C. deal?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:36 am 
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Sys,
You are incorrect in your statement about Jack not being one of the best hitters in baseball over the July 2007 to July 2008. He is something like the 4th best behind Pujols and a few others. Remember hit .400 for the remainder of the season from July on last year.


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