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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:35 am 
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Thank you sir


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:36 am 
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I think we might have found BH's kryptonite.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:38 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
I think we might have found BH's kryptonite.


Yes... the truth


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:51 am 
nad69dan wrote:
I understand your point, but you need to understand that this regime is totally different and have proved that with every move they have made so far this season, and in the draft. These guys in the front office are legit. Its too bad they took over a team with the Major League team thin on talent, and the minors in a wreck...theres only 3 or 4 possible star prospects in the whole system!!!
Lumping the past failures onto these guys cuz they are in charge now should not happen. Thats why I made the bandwagon comment, you're jumping ship while the ship is at the lowest, though there's a crew in place that's laying a plan out how to raise it again.


One correction, nad69dan, this isn't a "totally different" regime. Nutting has been a primary

That said, there are some signs that things are different now and things may be changing, which is very exciting. But they have not PROVEN anything. The Pirates are still a team that loses far more games than they win.

There are SIGNS things are turning around but nothing is PROVEN til they win.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:55 am 
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Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I understand your point, but you need to understand that this regime is totally different and have proved that with every move they have made so far this season, and in the draft. These guys in the front office are legit. Its too bad they took over a team with the Major League team thin on talent, and the minors in a wreck...theres only 3 or 4 possible star prospects in the whole system!!!
Lumping the past failures onto these guys cuz they are in charge now should not happen. Thats why I made the bandwagon comment, you're jumping ship while the ship is at the lowest, though there's a crew in place that's laying a plan out how to raise it again.


One correction, nad69dan, this isn't a "totally different" regime. Nutting has been a primary

That said, there are some signs that things are different now and things may be changing, which is very exciting. But they have not PROVEN anything. The Pirates are still a team that loses far more games than they win.

There are SIGNS things are turning around but nothing is PROVEN til they win.


And I will agree with you Elmer, Nutting has said that he will spend at the right time. I don't think now is the right time, but there will come a time when it will be right and I want to see action just as much as you.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:00 am 
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Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I understand your point, but you need to understand that this regime is totally different and have proved that with every move they have made so far this season, and in the draft. These guys in the front office are legit. Its too bad they took over a team with the Major League team thin on talent, and the minors in a wreck...theres only 3 or 4 possible star prospects in the whole system!!!
Lumping the past failures onto these guys cuz they are in charge now should not happen. Thats why I made the bandwagon comment, you're jumping ship while the ship is at the lowest, though there's a crew in place that's laying a plan out how to raise it again.


One correction, nad69dan, this isn't a "totally different" regime. Nutting has been a primary

That said, there are some signs that things are different now and things may be changing, which is very exciting. But they have not PROVEN anything. The Pirates are still a team that loses far more games than they win.

There are SIGNS things are turning around but nothing is PROVEN til they win.



Yes, we all know Nutting was part of the ownership prior...BUT, Nutting wasnt making the baseball decisions and didnt have much say in the running of the club until last season...McClatchy was the one running it...


Nutting got him to step down, fired Littlefield and then fired Tracy and brought in Coonley and Huntington and Russell and spent money to build a new academy in Latin America...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:07 pm 
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
nad69dan wrote:
I understand your point, but you need to understand that this regime is totally different and have proved that with every move they have made so far this season, and in the draft. These guys in the front office are legit. Its too bad they took over a team with the Major League team thin on talent, and the minors in a wreck...theres only 3 or 4 possible star prospects in the whole system!!!
Lumping the past failures onto these guys cuz they are in charge now should not happen. Thats why I made the bandwagon comment, you're jumping ship while the ship is at the lowest, though there's a crew in place that's laying a plan out how to raise it again.


One correction, nad69dan, this isn't a "totally different" regime. Nutting has been a primary

That said, there are some signs that things are different now and things may be changing, which is very exciting. But they have not PROVEN anything. The Pirates are still a team that loses far more games than they win.

There are SIGNS things are turning around but nothing is PROVEN til they win.



Yes, we all know Nutting was part of the ownership prior...BUT, Nutting wasnt making the baseball decisions and didnt have much say in the running of the club until last season...McClatchy was the one running it...


Nutting got him to step down, fired Littlefield and then fired Tracy and brought in Coonley and Huntington and Russell and spent money to build a new academy in Latin America...



I've read/hear, etc. that Nutting had much more control than was publicized for years, and McClatchy, by the end, had some control but was mainly a talking head. Either way, Nutting was PART of the group that did all of that, so it's not fair to absolve him of all involvement with the bad.

I like some of the moves he's made, especially the Latin American academy. Like I said earlier, those are SIGNS that things could go in the right direction and wins could come. BUt until the wins do, in fact, come, nothing has been "proven."


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:09 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I've read/hear, etc. that Nutting had much more control than was publicized for years, and McClatchy, by the end, had some control but was mainly a talking head. Either way, Nutting was PART of the group that did all of that, so it's not fair to absolve him of all involvement with the bad.

I like some of the moves he's made, especially the Latin American academy. Like I said earlier, those are SIGNS that things could go in the right direction and wins could come. BUt until the wins do, in fact, come, nothing has been "proven."


Do you have any proof of this Elmer?

Its sounding like other threads where you give your opinion but have not backed it up

If Nutting was in charge behind the scenes so long and making a big profit like he was, why would he change? Why would he let his manager go and his GM and have McClatchy step down and replace him with an executive from the MLB front office? Why would he invest money in Latin America? Why didn't he draft another projected #3 starter in the draft? Why would he change his routine?

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:47 am 
nad69dan wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I've read/hear, etc. that Nutting had much more control than was publicized for years, and McClatchy, by the end, had some control but was mainly a talking head. Either way, Nutting was PART of the group that did all of that, so it's not fair to absolve him of all involvement with the bad.

I like some of the moves he's made, especially the Latin American academy. Like I said earlier, those are SIGNS that things could go in the right direction and wins could come. BUt until the wins do, in fact, come, nothing has been "proven."


Do you have any proof of this Elmer?

Its sounding like other threads where you give your opinion but have not backed it up

If Nutting was in charge behind the scenes so long and making a big profit like he was, why would he change? Why would he let his manager go and his GM and have McClatchy step down and replace him with an executive from the MLB front office? Why would he invest money in Latin America? Why didn't he draft another projected #3 starter in the draft? Why would he change his routine?


No, I don't have proof. I'm just going off of what I've heard people like John Perrotto and even some of the ESPN guys say. How much of a say he had is debatable, I'm not saying he was "100%" in charge, but he certainly had some say. Any one who is investing millions and millions and millions -- owning a bigger percentage of any company as time goes on -- that person is going to want (and deserves) more say in operations.

As I've said many, many times, I love the Latin America academy. I love the draft picks. These are things that make it look like more wins could come. But since the goal of playing baseball is to win, you can't call anything "proof" until the wins come.


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