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 Post subject: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:02 am 
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08183/893877-87.stm

Notable points

" makes you wonder if the organizational accountability he has been preaching is a crock and that he and his new management team already are accepting the mediocrity that has doomed the franchise for going on 16 years."

small crowds at Pirates games.... "Nevertheless, it is a shame that more fans have not been able to enjoy Pirates baseball at PNC Park to date."
Outrageous doesn't even begin to describe that observation

"We've seen how these guys compete," Coonelly said. "We keep competing against the best teams in baseball."

there seems to be a feeling in the Pirates organization, from Coonelly on down, that the team has accomplished something even if the record says otherwise

customers know the truth even if Coonelly doesn't want to admit it publicly.

attendance ... ranks next-to-last in the big leagues.....Coonelly might think the Pirates are doing a nice job of competing.

The fans are saying otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:03 am 
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How did I know you were going to post this?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:07 am 
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What happened to the ignore fearure?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:15 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
What happened to the ignore fearure?

Exactly why attendance is next to last....fans are using the ignore feature....great point! :D :lol: :!:

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:16 am 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
What happened to the ignore fearure?

Exactly why attendance is next to last....fans are using the ignore feature....great point! :D :lol: :!:


The attendance is next to last for a lot of reasons BH....none of which you or your chorus of pessimists would understand.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:23 am 
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There is one major reason they are next to last in attendance. People are sick and tired of paying and watching a lousy team. The luster of the new park is gone....the Allstar ticket package gone....the only time the team draws well is because of a promotion or a team like the Yankees are there. In otherwords, the team itself is not a draw.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:27 am 
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bullishhitter wrote:
There is one major reason they are next to last in attendance. People are sick and tired of paying and watching a lousy team. The luster of the new park is gone....the Allstar ticket package gone....the only time the team draws well is because of a promotion or a team like the Yankees are there. In otherwords, the team itself is not a draw.


BS.

Three Rivers Stadium sold out when the Steelers were terrible. Your argument about not wanting to watch a bad team holds no water.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:43 am 
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Baseball has 81 home games that are played every day of the week. Football has 8 home games and mostly played on the weekend. An NFL team could sell out a 70,000 seat stadium in every city with a population over 100,000.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:45 am 
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BH, as stated before, many times... At least there IS a team in Pittsburgh, they could be the Carolina Pirates. Secondly, its a free country, choose another team, one that suits your ideals.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:48 am 
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You might also consider that the economy has something to do with the attendance figures.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:58 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Baseball has 81 home games that are played every day of the week. Football has 8 home games and mostly played on the weekend. An NFL team could sell out a 70,000 seat stadium in every city with a population over 100,000.


But there are still NFL teams that don't sell out their home games. Look at New Orleans and Arizona.

And the economy has a huge impact on baseball attendance. Rising gas prices means less disposable income which hits baseball before any of the other sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:59 am 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
You might also consider that the economy has something to do with the attendance figures.

The economy does not explain the poor attendance figures of years past.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:04 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
There is one major reason they are next to last in attendance. People are sick and tired of paying and watching a lousy team. The luster of the new park is gone....the Allstar ticket package gone....the only time the team draws well is because of a promotion or a team like the Yankees are there. In otherwords, the team itself is not a draw.


BS.

Three Rivers Stadium sold out when the Steelers were terrible. Your argument about not wanting to watch a bad team holds no water.

BWHAHAHAHAAAHAAA.......the Steelers have never been as bad as the Pirates have been....even in the 40s, 50s & 60s
You point holds no water. Only for a couple of years in the 80s did the Steelers suck...not the longest of any major pro sports team. If the would Steelers suck for as long as the Pirates have they will not have a waiting list for season tickets.
Pgh has never been a town that supported baseball. During the 70s, the best era for Pgh baseball, the attendance was only average per MLB

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:05 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Piratefan13 wrote:
You might also consider that the economy has something to do with the attendance figures.

The economy does not explain the poor attendance figures of years past.



What it could explain is the drop in attendance figures for this season against last. That was the point to be made.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:14 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
There is one major reason they are next to last in attendance. People are sick and tired of paying and watching a lousy team. The luster of the new park is gone....the Allstar ticket package gone....the only time the team draws well is because of a promotion or a team like the Yankees are there. In otherwords, the team itself is not a draw.


BS.

Three Rivers Stadium sold out when the Steelers were terrible. Your argument about not wanting to watch a bad team holds no water.

BWHAHAHAHAAAHAAA.......the Steelers have never been as bad as the Pirates have been....even in the 40s, 50s & 60s
You point holds no water. Only for a couple of years in the 80s did the Steelers suck...not the longest of any major pro sports team. If the would Steelers suck for as long as the Pirates have they will not have a waiting list for season tickets.
Pgh has never been a town that supported baseball. During the 70s, the best era for Pgh baseball, the attendance was only average per MLB


You just proved against your own point.

Quote:
During the 70s, the best era for Pgh baseball, the attendance was only average per MLB


So when the Pirates were at their peak of success, the team still didn't draw overly well. So how can you say that the reason people aren't showing up this year is because the team "sucks." The only information you have is from one article by Gene Cook who probably didn't have any story to write today, so he had to conjur up something stupid. You go ahead and triumphantly quote the "points of interest" from the article and then subsequently contradict yourself by indicating that Pittsburgh has been notorius for not drawing even during good years.

Dude, your continued arguement against the organization has gone from interesting to downright laughable. We need something fresh from you, something new.

In my best English with German accent --- You... are the weakest poster... Goodbye


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:24 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
You might also consider that the economy has something to do with the attendance figures.
Maybe..explain the economy while the Pens sold out games with tickets 5 times or more expensive than the Pirates?
The Pirates dont draw because they suck...its that simple. And even if the Park is empty Nutting is not moving, just not collecting as much revenue. The lease prohibits whoever owns the team from leaving so there is going to be a MLB team here for a while.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:46 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
[

So when the Pirates were at their peak of success, the team still didn't draw overly well. So how can you say that the reason people aren't showing up this year is because the team "sucks." The only information you have is from one article by Gene Cook who probably didn't have any story to write today, so he had to conjur up something stupid. You go ahead and triumphantly quote the "points of interest" from the article and then subsequently contradict yourself by indicating that Pittsburgh has been notorius for not drawing even during good years.

3 Rivers was not a great place to watch a baseball game. That was part of the reason . The team was not marketed as well as they are today. Shtt, if the Pirates didnt have all of the BS promotions that draw fans the place would be nearly empty. So you think Ron Cook's article was stupid? It is very true. You just cant handle it. As stated before, Nutting knows this market has limited upside in attandance if the team does well. Thats the main reason why he'll have a below average payroll under his ownership and the odds of winning let alone a championship are slim.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:26 pm 
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bullishhitter wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
bullishhitter wrote:
There is one major reason they are next to last in attendance. People are sick and tired of paying and watching a lousy team. The luster of the new park is gone....the Allstar ticket package gone....the only time the team draws well is because of a promotion or a team like the Yankees are there. In otherwords, the team itself is not a draw.


BS.

Three Rivers Stadium sold out when the Steelers were terrible. Your argument about not wanting to watch a bad team holds no water.

BWHAHAHAHAAAHAAA.......the Steelers have never been as bad as the Pirates have been....even in the 40s, 50s & 60s
You point holds no water. Only for a couple of years in the 80s did the Steelers suck...not the longest of any major pro sports team. If the would Steelers suck for as long as the Pirates have they will not have a waiting list for season tickets.
Pgh has never been a town that supported baseball. During the 70s, the best era for Pgh baseball, the attendance was only average per MLB


You have to love the maturity he brings to these arguments.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:59 pm 
I agree with some of the points in Cook's article and disagree with others.

The best point he makes, in my opinion, is that about wins and losses. It's not hard to see who is good and who sucks in sports. Wins are the bottom line.

I like some moves new management has made and dislike others, but until they WIN, it doesn't matter ... good draft picks and good signings aren't "good" until they produce a winner.

Some of these recent moves might be (one could even say they probably will be) might lead to wins, but until that happens, this is still a very bad team.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates still are not competitive enough for fans
PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:03 pm 
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Take in considerance that BH is an ass...

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