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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:06 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
But, what Prince doesn't point out is that one of the arcitechts of the Rays was none other than...
.. .the unmentionable one, one Mr. Camabafooneries.

ZM


Actually, ZM, I believe Cam was part of the front office that got the axe in 2005. Hard to say he was an architect of what they have done since.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:45 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
Yeah Kazmir is better than any pitcher on our team.
What i don't get is why are the Rays talking about trading him.

Incredible organizational depth and — speculating here — questions surrounding K.'s durability.

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:14 am 
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Kazmir is not trade bait. They just gave him a contract extension a few months ago. There would be rioting in the streets here if they traded him.

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:03 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
Yeah Kazmir is better than any pitcher on our team.
What i don't get is why are the Rays talking about trading him.


I haven't seen any rumors about dealing him. I'd be pretty surprised if they did.

Bob....is 50 people considered a riot? Because I have a really hard time believing that more than 50 people would be upset enough about something the Rays do to riot.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:27 pm 
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I've only seen Kazmir a couple times now. That said, he's a nice pitcher, but I don't find him any better or worse than Snell or Gorzo when they are "right".

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:23 pm 
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As a rule of thumb, I find myself being very wary of anyone Steve Phillips heaps praise on.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a good pitcher. But I'm not ready to put him in that "#1 stud ace" category quite yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:24 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Bob....is 50 people considered a riot? Because I have a really hard time believing that more than 50 people would be upset enough about something the Rays do to riot.



If I'm the Bob you're asking, you might be interested in an online law dictionary definition of a riot:

Quote:
"a disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons acting together in a disrupting and tumultuous manner in carrying out their private purposes."


Hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:44 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
I've only seen Kazmir a couple times now. That said, he's a nice pitcher, but I don't find him any better or worse than Snell or Gorzo when they are "right".

ZM

Even if that's true, a team does not play a pitcher like Kazmir, Snell, or Gorzo only when they are "right." A team typically plays a pitcher like that an entire year, "right" or otherwise. Kazmir's seasonal record is far better than that of Snell or Gorzo, and that's why Kazmir's value is greater.

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:17 pm 
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Pictures from the LAST riot in Florida...

Image

Image

Image

Perhaps the Rays front office would do well to consult with the AARP before any trades are made...


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:05 pm 
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Bob in Boston wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Bob....is 50 people considered a riot? Because I have a really hard time believing that more than 50 people would be upset enough about something the Rays do to riot.



If I'm the Bob you're asking, you might be interested in an online law dictionary definition of a riot:

Quote:
"a disturbance of the public peace by three or more persons acting together in a disrupting and tumultuous manner in carrying out their private purposes."


Hope that helps.


That's interesting. Now the Rays needs to find more than three people willing to riot on their behalf.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
I've only seen Kazmir a couple times now. That said, he's a nice pitcher, but I don't find him any better or worse than Snell or Gorzo when they are "right".

ZM

Even if that's true, a team does not play a pitcher like Kazmir, Snell, or Gorzo only when they are "right." A team typically plays a pitcher like that an entire year, "right" or otherwise. Kazmir's seasonal record is far better than that of Snell or Gorzo, and that's why Kazmir's value is greater.


Kazmir is a strikeout machine and he is only 24. When they are right I love Snell and Gorzo but they ain't even close to Kazmir.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:00 pm 
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When he is right, so is Snell.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:20 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
When he is right, so is Snell.

ZM



Kazmir: 2006- 163 K's in 144 IP. Gave up 132 hits with an ERA of 3.25 and a WHIP of 1.28
2007- 239 K's in 206 IP. Gave up 196 hits with an ERA of 3.49 and a WHIP of 1.38


Snell: 2006- 169 K's in 186 IP. Gave up 198 hits with an ERA of 4.74 and a WHIP of 146
2007- 177 K's in 208 IP. Gave up 209 hits with an ERA of 3.76 and a WHIP of 1.33

Kazmir also threw 196 innings in 2005 at age 21. In his 3 full seasons with Tampa he has yet to have a losing record.

Like I said when they are right I like Snell and Gorzo. And the numbers above(especially '07) from Snell are nothing to sneeze at. But comparing him to Kazmir is wrong. This kid is special and in the elite class of pitchers already. And remember up until this year he has also always pitched for a losing team. And he is 3 years younger than Snell.


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 Post subject: Re: Comparing the Bucs and the Rays
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:25 pm 
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That's a lot of innings on a young arm.

Hopefully he doesn't pay a price for that later.


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