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 Post subject: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:32 am 
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Dumatrait on the DL, and with Snell on the way, this is where we may begin to sink. I've drunk the koolaid all season but the prospects of Bullington and VB starting in the rotation next to underachieving Gorzelanny makes me a bit queezy.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:40 am 
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Neither of those is listed as coming up.

Barthmeir appeard to be the one to come up.

I don't know if anything more than Snell's brain is hurt. We'll see.

Gorzo has been getting better each outing, and his last was his best to date. He's got his velocity back, and his command, while less than commendable, has been getting better, too.

I think he'll get better as the season wears on.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:46 am 
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The concept ZM... the concept is what I was talking about, not fact. Bull and VB are just names, but the starting pitch depth is basically the same across the board, regardless of who they pull up. Sure Barthmeier is pitching well in AAA, but so is VB, and Bullington. Coming into the season, SP was certainly the achillies heal for the Bucs, if we lose Dumatrait and Snell(even though he isn't performing) for any length of time, we are in trouble. You have to agree with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:56 am 
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yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:26 pm 
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I vote for Barthmeier and Herrera. Why not? See what you've got. At least they have an ounce of promise. Instead, I fear we will see Bullington and Jaon Davis. Of course, if DL were still here, Bullington would have made the rotation out of spring training... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:32 pm 
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Herrea had 7 shutout innings innings lastnight

Quote:
Yoslan Herrera (4-7, 3.12) pitched seven scoreless innings and allowed two hits for his second-longest outing of the season and first victory since May 15. He struck out three, walked one and got 13 groundouts


His record is bad because AA lacks talent on the field to produce some decent offense regularly

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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:45 pm 
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Bottom line is bad pitching is getting worse because of injuries.

Gorzo does show improvement and may come through this season so we have what appears to be three decent throwers for now, with the hope of returning players soon.

STILL THE MOST PROBLEMATIC PART OF THE TEAM IS SP.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:47 pm 
I was afraid of something like this. Management did not do the team any favors by getting virtually no sp depth heading into this season.

Our already-bad rotation is even worse now with no decent options ready to fill in.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:50 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I was afraid of something like this. Management did not do the team any favors by getting virtually no sp depth heading into this season.

Our already-bad rotation is even worse now with no decent options ready to fill in.

Who would you say they should have gotten, and what should they have given up to get him?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:15 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I was afraid of something like this. Management did not do the team any favors by getting virtually no sp depth heading into this season.

Our already-bad rotation is even worse now with no decent options ready to fill in.

Who would you say they should have gotten, and what should they have given up to get him?


I would have liked to see the team sign more minor league free agents to add depth to the AAA roster/rotation, or a lower-tier major league free agent. I'm not talking big ticket signings or even advocating signing guys to be in the starting 5, just rotation depth. We have none.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:31 pm 
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Elmer wrote:

I would have liked to see the team sign more minor league free agents to add depth to the AAA roster/rotation, or a lower-tier major league free agent. I'm not talking big ticket signings or even advocating signing guys to be in the starting 5, just rotation depth. We have none.


Oh, you mean guys like Dumatrait, Taubenheim, Davis, and Barthmeier?

How many minor league starting pitchers did you want in your AAA rotation, Elmer? I don't recall you posting this past off season that we need to get rid of JVB or Bullington, so there are two spots. Munoz had a solid year and probably did deserve the third (unfortunately, he took a step back this year). Of those four that he did acquire, one has panned out (Dumatrait) and another (Barthmeier) looks exceptionally promising. The other two have been in the AAA rotation, which, it seems, is what you are advocating.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:34 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:

I would have liked to see the team sign more minor league free agents to add depth to the AAA roster/rotation, or a lower-tier major league free agent. I'm not talking big ticket signings or even advocating signing guys to be in the starting 5, just rotation depth. We have none.


Oh, you mean guys like Dumatrait, Taubenheim, Davis, and Barthmeier?

How many minor league starting pitchers did you want in your AAA rotation, Elmer? I don't recall you posting this past off season that we need to get rid of JVB or Bullington, so there are two spots. Munoz had a solid year and probably did deserve the third (unfortunately, he took a step back this year). Of those four that he did acquire, one has panned out (Dumatrait) and another (Barthmeier) looks exceptionally promising. The other two have been in the AAA rotation, which, it seems, is what you are advocating.


I was about to say the same thing, but you stole my thunder. Nice post BBF.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:36 pm 
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:

I would have liked to see the team sign more minor league free agents to add depth to the AAA roster/rotation, or a lower-tier major league free agent. I'm not talking big ticket signings or even advocating signing guys to be in the starting 5, just rotation depth. We have none.


Oh, you mean guys like Dumatrait, Taubenheim, Davis, and Barthmeier?

How many minor league starting pitchers did you want in your AAA rotation, Elmer? I don't recall you posting this past off season that we need to get rid of JVB or Bullington, so there are two spots. Munoz had a solid year and probably did deserve the third (unfortunately, he took a step back this year). Of those four that he did acquire, one has panned out (Dumatrait) and another (Barthmeier) looks exceptionally promising. The other two have been in the AAA rotation, which, it seems, is what you are advocating.


Dumatrait was a great signing. Given how the rest of the crew has performed, and now with injuries setting it, I think scouring the waiver wire for bodies as this year unfolded is a reasonable wish.

There's certainly some things to praise NH for, but to never criticize a single thing he does or doesn't do is ridiculous.

We are looking at a rotation of Gorzo/Maholm/Duke/JVB/Bullington. Hoping your team's GM can find some additional bodies is a pretty reasonable post.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:47 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
Elmer wrote:
I was afraid of something like this. Management did not do the team any favors by getting virtually no sp depth heading into this season.

Our already-bad rotation is even worse now with no decent options ready to fill in.

Who would you say they should have gotten, and what should they have given up to get him?


I would have liked to see the team sign more minor league free agents to add depth to the AAA roster/rotation, or a lower-tier major league free agent. I'm not talking big ticket signings or even advocating signing guys to be in the starting 5, just rotation depth. We have none.

They did acquire a bunch of minor league pitchers to add depth to the AAA roster.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:49 pm 
sisyphus wrote:
They did acquire a bunch of minor league pitchers to add depth to the AAA roster.


So the major league rotation and AAA rotation are perfect as they currently stand? No need to look to upgrade?


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:54 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
They did acquire a bunch of minor league pitchers to add depth to the AAA roster.


So the major league rotation and AAA rotation are perfect as they currently stand? No need to look to upgrade?


And you know that they didn't look to upgrade how? Looking to upgrade and being able to upgrade are two different things, and there may be no upgrades available. I know I certainly haven't heard of any pitchers DFA'd that I would consider an upgrade, but perhaps you spend more time scouring the waiver wires than I do. I'd love to hear those names.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:56 pm 
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
They did acquire a bunch of minor league pitchers to add depth to the AAA roster.


So the major league rotation and AAA rotation are perfect as they currently stand? No need to look to upgrade?


And you know that they didn't look to upgrade how? Looking to upgrade and being able to upgrade are two different things, and there may be no upgrades available. I know I certainly haven't heard of any pitchers DFA'd that I would consider an upgrade, but perhaps you spend more time scouring the waiver wires than I do. I'd love to hear those names.


I'm not going to spend my afternoon looking at the names of minor league pitchers so you and sisy can rip whatever I post. I've explained this before.

I'm making a general comment that I'd like to see this team upgrade some of its starting pitching, THAT'S A REASONABLE POST. You guys have shown me in the past that WHATEVER I say will be criticized. Certainly your right, but I'm don't play that game with you two.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Quote:
I'm not going to spend my afternoon looking at the names of minor league pitchers so you and sisy can rip whatever I post. I've explained this before.

I'm making a general comment that I'd like to see this team upgrade some of its starting pitching, THAT'S A REASONABLE POST. You guys have shown me in the past that WHATEVER I say will be criticized. Certainly your right, but I'm don't play that game with you two.


I'm here huckleberry... :lol: Sorry Elmer I couldn't resist, I had a "Tombstone" moment.

Elmer there definitely isn't a reason to argue about this all day. NH took every SP that was available and met the new Pirates organizational requirements during the offseason. And now, there is just simply nobody out there to go and get. Unless Matt Morris isn't busy. We are probably going to have to ride this one out with what we got, unless a trade of Bay or Nady nets us a MLB ready starter, which might be unlikely.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:05 pm 
Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
I'm not going to spend my afternoon looking at the names of minor league pitchers so you and sisy can rip whatever I post. I've explained this before.

I'm making a general comment that I'd like to see this team upgrade some of its starting pitching, THAT'S A REASONABLE POST. You guys have shown me in the past that WHATEVER I say will be criticized. Certainly your right, but I'm don't play that game with you two.


I'm here huckleberry... :lol: Sorry Elmer I couldn't resist, I had a "Tombstone" moment.

Elmer there definitely isn't a reason to argue about this all day. NH took every SP that was available and met the new Pirates organizational requirements during the offseason. And now, there is just simply nobody out there to go and get. Unless Matt Morris isn't busy. We are probably going to have to ride this one out with what we got, unless a trade of Bay or Nady nets us a MLB ready starter, which might be unlikely.


Ha, no worries on the Tombstone moment. I got a chuckle.

I'm not sure NH took every SP option that was available, but he took some chances (including some ones that worked out) in the offseason. I'm more concerned with during this season. I'm not accusing NH of ruining the team or anything, but I do think he could have been a bit more aggressive.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirate ship taking on water
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:09 pm 
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Elmer wrote:
I'm not going to spend my afternoon looking at the names of minor league pitchers so you and sisy can rip whatever I post. I've explained this before.

Of course you're not, as it is your position that Huntingdon should have a crystal ball and a magic wand that he uses to convince Walt Jocketty to give us Edinson Volquez for a package of Nyjer Morgan, JVB and Bullington.
Quote:
I'm making a general comment that I'd like to see this team upgrade some of its starting pitching,

No you aren't, you're criticizing Huntingdon for his failure to work miracles. Just about everybody here has said that they'd like to see the rotation upgraded. Most of us realize that it's going to be tough to do that without trading a bunch of guys that you would like to be called untouchables, though.

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