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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Snell will probably miss one start with golfer's elbow, and Dumatrait will be ready when his DL time is up, as he just has some bursitis in the rotator cuff. Good news all around.

http://postgazette.com/pg/08175/892036-100.stm


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 4:38 pm 
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ooops. another blow to the Rocco DeMarro theory (I use Rocco judiciously to avoid copyright infringment issues on this board).

Snell is not overused.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:00 pm 
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Gee. What a shock. I suppose that waiting for all those folks who were calling Snell a head case to admit how wrong there were is a waste of time, though.

THATS THE FIRST LINE IN YOUR FIRST REPLY TO THIS SUBJECT.I DON'T THINK (how wrong there were is a waste or time) IS VERY PROPER ENGLISH.SINCE YOU WANT TO GET ON ME FOR IT.
BUT ALSO I DO AGREE WITH YOU AND YOUR OPINION ABOUT SNELL.
Snell and Gorzo both appear to be one year wonders and we keep them in the rotation instead of a number one draft pick in Tyler Yates.Yates has never got a chance to start on our team and we still don't have talks of him starting.i just don't get it.hopefully somebody in the front office realizes that their is a better talent in Yates then just a good reliever


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:08 pm 
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Colin21 wrote:
hopefully somebody in the front office realizes that their is a better talent in Yates then just a good reliever


And hopefully that person is fired long before he gets to voice that opinion. I hope that you weren't being serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:59 pm 
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very serious.i've seen yates start games in person outside of the pirates and he is very up and down but when hes hot hes more than hot.His state of mind is what makes him go up and down and not just stay up.If he gets the confidence to play good he will play good and that might even go into a starting role is all i'm saying.I think he deserves a shot


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:19 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And yet, Gorzo, while admitting a "stiff" shoulder early in the year, says he is all comfy now. His velocity is back to normal (91 or so), and his command is getting better each start since that disaster a few weeks ago.

So, you may have to eat some crow if that is true.

ZM

I'll point out that you wrote the same thing about Snell's velocity to me earlier in the season.

He CLAIMS that his shoulder is okay now. We have no way to know whether or not he is telling the truth, and he'd be far from the first pitcher to lie about the condition of his arm. I'd also like to point out that Dumatrait was having trouble with his shoulder for quite some time, but we heard nothing about it until he was put on the DL.

Another point is this, and I think that it's a very important one: a pitcher who is about to break down often pitches poorly for some time before he reports any pain from the injury. Just take a look at Zach Duke last year for one example.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:34 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
So, you may have to eat some crow if that is true.

ZM

I'll point out that you wrote the same thing about Snell's velocity to me earlier in the season.


Sheesh. Reading this thread is like being an unwilling spectator at a pissing contest. Put 'em back in your pants and zip up guys. Nobody cares who predicted what to who when.


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:36 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
Gee. What a shock. I suppose that waiting for all those folks who were calling Snell a head case to admit how wrong there were is a waste of time, though.

THATS THE FIRST LINE IN YOUR FIRST REPLY TO THIS SUBJECT.I DON'T THINK (how wrong there were is a waste or time) IS VERY PROPER ENGLISH.SINCE YOU WANT TO GET ON ME FOR IT.

I majored in English, spam man, so you might want to be careful about criticizing my grammar. You are right about that criticism, though. "I don't think how wrong there were" is most definitely not proper English. I don't take the care here with spelling, grammar and punctuation that I would in a more formal setting, but I do pay some attention to what I'm writing. Unfortunately for you, that isn't what I wrote. It's how you misquoted me. And I did not "get on you" for failing to use proper English. I got on you for using chat speak. A message board is not a chatroom. You have plenty of time to type your replies, so take the extra fraction of a second to actually type out whole words as a courtesy to the other board members.

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BUT ALSO I DO AGREE WITH YOU AND YOUR OPINION ABOUT SNELL.
Snell and Gorzo both appear to be one year wonders and we keep them in the rotation instead of a number one draft pick in Tyler Yates.Yates has never got a chance to start on our team and we still don't have talks of him starting.i just don't get it.hopefully somebody in the front office realizes that their is a better talent in Yates then just a good reliever

We DON'T agree on Snell and Gorzo. I don't think that either of them are one year wonders. I think that they are both injured. We don't agree on Tyler Yates either. While I don't have a problem with his acquisition, his performance has been very disappointing. Twenty nine hits, 29 walks and only 23 strikeouts in 37 innings is terrible. As to putting him into the rotation, he put up an ERA of 6.34 in 7 starts for the Mets in 2004, and he didn't show anything in 25 career minor league starts. I see nothing to indicate that he'd be any good as a starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:37 am 
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burghermeister wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
So, you may have to eat some crow if that is true.

ZM

I'll point out that you wrote the same thing about Snell's velocity to me earlier in the season.


Sheesh. Reading this thread is like being an unwilling spectator at a pissing contest. Put 'em back in your pants and zip up guys. Nobody cares who predicted what to who when.

It's relevant to his point.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:45 am 
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we agree only applied to the first sentence i said.everything after that was my opinion , and as for Yates goes i see him like a rock rolling down a hill.the pirates testing him on what he does in 1 inning isnt fair to a strike-out type pitcher like him.i will say though thay his walks do scare me and that has always been his problem but i really think he deserves a shot.We are possibly going to have 2 out of 5 rotation spots open this week and maybe in the weeks to come.Who would you guys put in for those starts?


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:59 am 
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Colin21 wrote:
we agree only applied to the first sentence i said.everything after that was my opinion , and as for Yates goes i see him like a rock rolling down a hill.the pirates testing him on what he does in 1 inning isnt fair to a strike-out type pitcher like him.i will say though thay his walks do scare me and that has always been his problem but i really think he deserves a shot.We are possibly going to have 2 out of 5 rotation spots open this week and maybe in the weeks to come.Who would you guys put in for those starts?

I wouldn't use Yates. He hasn't really been that effective this year, he hasn't been effective as a starter in the past, and his arm probably isn't built up enough to handle a starting role at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:13 am 
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And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:19 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

That wasn't why I brought it up. I brought it up because even if you accept that Snell was throwing his fastball consistently at the same speed as he did last year, he was still hurt.

I don't accept that he was consistently throwing at the same velocity as last year, and neither does Bob Walk, but that's a different argument altogether.

Quote:
Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

And my point is that it doesn't mean he isn't injured.

Quote:
But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

I don't read BA at all beyond a few scouting reports at draft time, and I didn't get this argument from BP. It's from observation. Both pitchers had heavy workloads at young ages last year, and both suck this year.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:56 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:59 am 
Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


BP and BA give great insight on baseball but they aren't the final source. BP, especially, churns out statistical analysis. But (and I'm not going to answer posts to restart this debate. You've heard where I stand), stats aren't the total picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:09 pm 
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Willton wrote:
They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


Never said I was. I however, reserve the right to question, observe and think for myself when I see some things they write.

If you consider this some kind of insult though, you'll need much more to get under my skin.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:53 am 
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Elmer wrote:
Willton wrote:
ZelieMike wrote:
And, Snells velocity in those games, was shown by others here, to be just as I said.

Gorzo's velocity was at his norm this last game.

But, I understand your reluctance to let go of something someone from BP, or BA writes. They are, after all, the final word in baseball.

ZM

They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


BP and BA give great insight on baseball but they aren't the final source. BP, especially, churns out statistical analysis. But (and I'm not going to answer posts to restart this debate. You've heard where I stand), stats aren't the total picture.

There is no final source, but dismissing what they say without saying why they are wrong just makes you willfully ignorant.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:01 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Willton wrote:
They're certainly a more authoritative source than some guy from Zelienople, PA.


Never said I was. I however, reserve the right to question, observe and think for myself when I see some things they write.

If you consider this some kind of insult though, you'll need much more to get under my skin.

ZM

But nobody invoked anything that they wrote! You made your snide comment purely in an effort to piss people off. We all know you're biased against anything written in BP, but to show it when nobody quoted or referenced BP makes you look like a goon with an agenda, much like Ann Coulter.

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:32 am 
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My isn't that a little strong. To reference an agenda like Ann Coultor IMO is hitting below the belt. I don't need or want in the middle of you two, just thought that this comment would get under anyones skin.

What do you think ZM?

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 Post subject: Re: Snell has elbow issues
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:49 am 
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I think he's reaching, since I've never dimissed BP or BA and in fact have referenced BA in the past.

I dismiss people who use them as a version of the indisputable Bible though and who seem to simply reguritate something read.

Ann Coulter is a hoot.

ZM

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