Proud fans of a 128-year old tradition

It is currently Wed Aug 27, 2014 3:57 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:53 pm 
BBF, I've heard your praises of NH all season. He's certainly done some good things.

I'm curious now, though, to hear your criticisms of him. Give me 5 moves/non moves he's made that you don't like. Or, is he perfect?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:00 pm 
Online
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:52 pm
Posts: 5119
Location: Pittsburgh
Elmer wrote:
I didn't want a 12 man rotation. I think that, once this season started rolling and you saw that you had zero in Morris, very little in your two "aces" of Snell and Gorzo, that continuing to bring in bodies is reasonable.

Who? I don't remember you calling any guys on the waiver wire to our attention.

Quote:
Criticizing every move a GM makes is silly. But so is defending every move he makes (or doesn't make in this case).

Take a look at the 10 pitchers (rotations in MLB and AAA) ... to act like there's no room for improvement is laughable.

Who would you suggest they acquire, and what should they give up to get him?

_________________
"Enjoy every sandwich." - Warren Zevon


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:02 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Elmer wrote:
BBF, I've heard your praises of NH all season. He's certainly done some good things.

I'm curious now, though, to hear your criticisms of him. Give me 5 moves/non moves he's made that you don't like. Or, is he perfect?


Oh, so you can't back up your argument, so let's change the topic to how much I love NH! Great debate technique. Honestly, arguing with you is pointless, and I know that I shouldn't even humor your ridiculous post, but what the hell.

Nope, he is not perfect.

Two moves I did not like were the trades of Torres and the acquisition of Yates. I said it then and still believe that I would rather have Torres and Davidson than Salas, Roberts, and Yates. Even with the difference in salary and even with the fact that Torres is a FA much sooner.

I also criticized them for keeping JVB as a starter. We need to find out if he has any value at all, which, IMO, would only be as a reliever, and we needed to do it this year.

I could also list several non-moves, but when you start criticizing non-moves (as you are) you are ASSUMING there was a move to be made. I, personally, find that to be an asinine argument.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:09 pm 
BBF wrote:
Elmer wrote:
BBF, I've heard your praises of NH all season. He's certainly done some good things.

I'm curious now, though, to hear your criticisms of him. Give me 5 moves/non moves he's made that you don't like. Or, is he perfect?


Oh, so you can't back up your argument, so let's change the topic to how much I love NH! Great debate technique. Honestly, arguing with you is pointless, and I know that I shouldn't even humor your ridiculous post, but what the hell.

Nope, he is not perfect.

Two moves I did not like were the trades of Torres and the acquisition of Yates. I said it then and still believe that I would rather have Torres and Davidson than Salas, Roberts, and Yates. Even with the difference in salary and even with the fact that Torres is a FA much sooner.

I also criticized them for keeping JVB as a starter. We need to find out if he has any value at all, which, IMO, would only be as a reliever, and we needed to do it this year.

I could also list several non-moves, but when you start criticizing non-moves (as you are) you are ASSUMING there was a move to be made. I, personally, find that to be an asinine argument.


I like to see both sides of any arguments so I'm glad you gave me your take. It's a refreshing change re the GM on this board.

I agree with you on the Torres move. The logic of "staying pat" so guys could return to past for (a la Bay) didn't apply to Torres for whatever reason, so I found it to be confusing.

The Yates move I like. They didn't give up much but got a power arm. He needs to find control though, and that may never happen, so it's certainly a risk. But given the trade of Torres happened, I do like this. If Torres is never traded, they probably don't make this move, which would be fine with me.

As for non-moves, I consider debating non-moves fun, not asinine. But, to each their own.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:45 pm
Posts: 1296
Location: Bowie, Md
Torres was making waves with the organization and was close to FA and he wasn't going to "return to form" like Bay because he is on the downside of his career so its good we got some young guys for him. Plus he wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway. I like the Yates deal and the Meek deal because the Buccos have a bunch of average arms in the organization, lots of 88-92mph FB's. We needed a few 95-98mph guys, even to just take a look at them.

Again, I will reiterate, this is the first year for the new upper-management, rather than running off spending tons of money in the offseason, I believe they wanted to see what was in-house first. I approve of that philosophy. Now we really know what we are deficient in, if NH doesn't bolster in those areas next season, I will be right along side of you complaining.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 WWW  YIM  Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:24 pm
Posts: 4150
Location: Zelienople, PA
BBF wrote:
It is your criticism- if you want it to stand, you should certainly be able to suggest some names that have been available over the waiver wire that you consider to be an improvement. ..


Well, there certainly did not seem an interest in Ponson and his case of whiskey. But, Ponson is a quality MLB pitcher, who after you passed him through the detox machine (or maybe gave him a good scotch booser!), could give you good innings.

From a BB perspective only, he is sure someone that was passed on.

ZM

_________________
Someone tell Votto... rbis are good


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:22 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
ZelieMike wrote:
BBF wrote:
It is your criticism- if you want it to stand, you should certainly be able to suggest some names that have been available over the waiver wire that you consider to be an improvement. ..


Well, there certainly did not seem an interest in Ponson and his case of whiskey. But, Ponson is a quality MLB pitcher, who after you passed him through the detox machine (or maybe gave him a good scotch booser!), could give you good innings.

From a BB perspective only, he is sure someone that was passed on.

ZM


See, Elmer, its not that hard!!!

I wouldn't have a problem had NH gotten Ponson for the ML-minimum. You could debate whether he would sign with us when the Yankees and probably a few other more competitive teams would offer him the same thing, but oh well.

As an added benefit, signing Ponson would have greatly increased revenues from the drink tax, perhaps enough to eliminate all property taxes! :lol:


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:19 am
Posts: 1496
BBF is on the money as always. I miss Salomon Torres so much! I don't fault our GM all that much though because he has a vision for the future.


Attachments:
Salomon.jpg
Salomon.jpg [ 12.37 KiB | Viewed 247 times ]
Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:11 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 3173
Location: Darlington, Pennsylvania
I've like TJ Beam for along time now but i still don't think hes ready for the pros yet.Hes 6'7 210 pounds.He needs some meat to his bones and better stuff before hes ready , but i've been wrong before with guys being ready , but i just think that they are rushing him.There are other guys out there they could have brought in instead of Beam at this point.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:31 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Colin21 wrote:
I've like TJ Beam for along time now but i still don't think hes ready for the pros yet.Hes 6'7 210 pounds.He needs some meat to his bones and better stuff before hes ready , but i've been wrong before with guys being ready , but i just think that they are rushing him.There are other guys out there they could have brought in instead of Beam at this point.


TJ Beam was pitching in the majors 2 years ago for the Yankees. He is hardly a young kid that they are "rushing".


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:43 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:22 pm
Posts: 2495
BBF wrote:
He is hardly a young kid that they are "rushing".


Maybe he's from Cuba?


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:14 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Colin21 wrote:
I've like TJ Beam for along time now but i still don't think hes ready for the pros yet.Hes 6'7 210 pounds.He needs some meat to his bones and better stuff before hes ready , but i've been wrong before with guys being ready , but i just think that they are rushing him.There are other guys out there they could have brought in instead of Beam at this point.

Beam is 27 years old. If he's not ready now, he'll never be.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:44 pm 
Online
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 7239
Willton wrote:
Beam is 27 years old. If he's not ready now, he'll never be.


27 if we multiply by the distance of Earth to Mars during the Spring Equinox and divide by the number of losing seasons the Pirates have had and add the number of Al Martin's wives equals 31 in Latin American years...

_________________
I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 3173
Location: Darlington, Pennsylvania
I dont think beam's from out of this county.Hes pretty white.Age isn't why i said he isnt ready , i don't think hes ready cause his numbers aren't good enough.we have alot of young guys doing better than Beam right now.Beam has decent stuff and he has great size but this hasn't even been one of his good years in the minors.We only brought him in as a seat filler and he will just blow games at this point


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:00 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Colin21 wrote:
I dont think beam's from out of this county.Hes pretty white.Age isn't why i said he isnt ready , i don't think hes ready cause his numbers aren't good enough.we have alot of young guys doing better than Beam right now.Beam has decent stuff and he has great size but this hasn't even been one of his good years in the minors.We only brought him in as a seat filler and he will just blow games at this point

Well if that's the case, then we certainly aren't rushing him, are we? He's just not good enough, and leaving him in AAA is not going to teach him anything. Unless you can think of a better option, I say we use him or lose him.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:00 am 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:26 pm
Posts: 3006
Colin21 wrote:
Beam has decent stuff and he has great size but this hasn't even been one of his good years in the minors.We only brought him in as a seat filler and he will just blow games at this point


I would like to hear what you didn't like about what Beam had been doing in the minors. In 40 IP, he had given up only 29 hits and 13 walks. Only one home run and 9 earned runs. He also had 39 strikeouts.

If you prefer ratios, that is an ERA of 2.03, a WHIP of 1.05, and a K:BB ratio of 3:1.

While I don't have high hopes for him, I DON'T agree that he was rushed up or didn't deserve to get the call.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 3173
Location: Darlington, Pennsylvania
Beam just proved my point in the game tonight.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:52 pm 
Offline
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 6209
Yeah he got rocked.


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:18 pm
Posts: 5060
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Colin21 wrote:
Beam just proved my point in the game tonight.

No he didn't. Last night's game is just evidence that Beam is not a good pitcher. It proves nothing about whether he was rushed to the major leagues.

There's no way that Beam could be rushed when (a) he's 27 years old, (b) he was dominating AAA at the time, and (3) he's pitched in the majors in years prior.

_________________
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."
~H. L. Mencken


Top
 
 Post subject: Re: Dumatrait to DL, TJ Beam called up
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:56 am 
Offline
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:32 pm
Posts: 3173
Location: Darlington, Pennsylvania
I know but there is a different feel from the minors to the pros.Vanbenscoten is the best example of that.Hes a pitching god in triple A but hes just not a good pro yet.If TJ Beam is ever going to be good in the pros its not gonna be until hes atleast 29 or 30.Hes not ready mentally , and just because the Yankees rushed him the same way we are not be he has good experence.Coming up and getting rocked every pro outting you have is worse than keeping them in the minors until they are 29 in my opinion.


Top
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], IA Pirate, nad69dan, No. 9, RTJR, sisyphus and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By Poker Bandits