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 Post subject: Re: So, how long do we stay with this experiment?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 5:32 pm
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Location: Darlington, Pennsylvania
Us finding another good catcher isnt going to happen anytime soon unless it's going to come through a position change or through a trade cause we don't have any other good catchers even throughout our minors.


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 Post subject: Re: So, how long do we stay with this experiment?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:46 pm 
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Location: 120 miles west of Iowa City
Willton wrote:
But one's likelihood to suffer a concussion is not affected at all by a player's propensity to get injured. The propensity to suffer a concussion is a characteristic of the position, not of the player. That's the point: whoever the Pirates place at catcher is just as likely to suffer a concussion as Doumit is.


From what I understand, this is wrong but would welcome the resident physician's opinion. It is my understanding that concussions are cumulative. A catcher (or running back (Merrill Hoge), quarterback (Trent Green)) with a previous history of concusssion is more likely to suffer a repeat injury and spend more time away from the game than a catcher who has not suffered a similar injury. Would Raul Chavez suffer concussive symptoms similar to Doumit's under the same circumstances? Not likely. Whether or not you believe that Doumit's defensive skills are good, bad, adequate or Gold Glove worthy should not blind you to the fact that Doumit's history of concussive injury is a concern.

Personally, I don't see a clear cut answer here. His bat is such that it needs to be in the lineup. I don't think that anyone here has questioned that fact. I think that the debate involves where he could be playing that best helps the Bucs.

While I have seen Doumit's catching improve markedly this year, I continue to see him as a defensive liability. I also see him as a huge injury risk behind the plate. If he's on the bench, his hitting prowess is moot. His hitting prowess is also somewhat countered by his deficiencies behind the plate. Thus, I see ZM raising valid points.

Willton/Econo also raises a valid point. IF you can keep Doumit in the lineup and get that type of hitting production out of him from the catching position, that could be a huge bonus. I essentially made the same argument years ago about Castillo. It looked as though he might hit 20-25 HRs from the 2B spot which would have been a huge bonus.

The ultimate question is a fair one: given the need to have Doumit's bat in this line-up as close to 100% as possible, where does he play. Is it better for the Bucs to have Doumit behind the plate for - say - 100 games as a catcher with Nady in RF or is it better for the Bucs to have Doumit in RF for 152 games with some other catcher behind the plate? In the former, you'll likely score more runs in those 100 games but you will likely give up more runs. In the latter, you'll score less but give up less as well.

Personally, I don't think that there is an easy answer. And, from what it appears to me, baseball people far more knowledgeable about the game than me differ in their opinions as well.

And - just to get an opinion on the table - here would be my preference. Trade Nady for prospects. Move Doumit to RF. Bring Paulino back from the minors. Give him another (and last) chance to show that he can be a player at the highest level. Have Chavez as the back-up catcher. Drop Rivas. If Paulino is the bum that most think he is (2007/2008 version), let him go after the season or send him back to AAA and get a catcher in the offseason via free agency. If he reverts to the 2006 Ronnie (decent offense for a catcher and good defense), then you have a pretty good asset in the lineup and lower your risk that Doumit will injure himself.

Just my $.02.

And, BTW, anyone who thinks that Doumit's broken thumb has nothing to do with his defensive skills is, IMO, wrong. How quickly a catcher reacts to bad pitches is very much a function of defensive skills. I'm not saying it had everything to do with his injury; I'm saying that it certainly played a role.

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No. 9
Obsessive proponent of situational bunting and 2 strike hitting approaches, reflexively pro-catchers calling good games and tasteless proponent of the value of a RBI.


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 Post subject: Re: So, how long do we stay with this experiment?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:24 pm 
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No.9 - as usual you make many points in the discussion that are valid. I would agree with your analysis of the deal and the fact that there is no clear cut easy decision. I just don't want Paulino back and Chevez can't hit his weight.
Nady will probably go soon but should Doumit go to RF is the question?

Doumit must stay -- he brings aggressiveness that is needed and his emotion is also good for the entire team, his bat speaks for itself.

his finger injury may have been because of his slowness in reacting but I'm not so sure anyone could have reacted quicker.

Maybe first base is the appropriate position for him, but we still need a catcher and have a good defensive one with no stick. Which is better?

As I said before, that why Russell makes the big bucks.

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