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 Post subject: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:06 pm 
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For what its worth, we didn't get much love from BA in the top 100. Despite being between #5-7 on all their experst lists in the handbook, Pedro Alvarez is 8th, with an perfect 80 power rating, Tony Sanchez is 79th with a 70 rating in defense. No Jose Tabata, I guess BA is buying into the age issue more than expected. The PG had a nice piece on him today, he sure seems like a guy poised to breakout.

Others of note -
Guys we could have signed -
Aroldis Chapman #22
Miguel Sano #94 (already listed at 3B/RF in the handbook)
Noel Arguelles #100

Guys we could have drafted last June -
Tyler Matzek #23
Jacob Turner #26
Aaron Crow #40
Tanner Scheppers #42
Zach Wheeler #49
Shelby Miller #50
Grant Green #52
Kyle Gibson #61
Alex White #65

With that said, most of the 2009 draft class are SP who haven't had a chance to prove anything as a pro, several will flop or end up injured. Only Grant Green ranked higher as a position player despite BA being down on him last June.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Forgot to mention Pedro's rank is the 3rd highest for a Pirate in the 20 year BA ranking history behind AmRam at 5th in 1998 and Anna Benson at 7th that same year.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:54 pm 
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Barry:

We could not have drafted Scheppers last June. Once a club selects and player and is unable to sign him, they cannot re-draft him in the succeeding draft.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Barry:

We could not have drafted Scheppers last June. Once a club selects and player and is unable to sign him, they cannot re-draft him in the succeeding draft.


Unless Scheppers waives the rule and would allow the Pirates to draft him. Alas, he did not, and Bucfan is right. Scheppers was "no touchy."

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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:48 pm 
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It doesn't change the fact that we did draft Scheppers and we could have taken the risk and signed him. IMO less risk than giving HS arms $1 million plus like we did this year.

Scheppers signed for $1.25 million this year after proving his health, I imagine that that number would've have gotten it done in 2008. Slot was 800k for the pick. We could have had him for less than Vazquez is bleeding us for.

I really won't argue taking Sanchez this past year, he looks to be as good as any other option. I just wished we had signed Scheppers in 2008.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:53 pm 
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Unfortunately, at the time, he was injured and his fastball clocked in at under 80 mph. Too much of the unknown. I can hear the screams now if they had signed him and he did not recover from his injuries. The hindsight thing applies here.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:21 pm 
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As I recall, the big problem was the Scheppers wanted to be paid like a top-15 pick. He did not believe that he should suffer a discount because of his injury.

When the Pirates worked him out, as Az noted, his velocity was equivalent to what my son threw as a high school freshman. He could not throw a breaking ball at that point. He was demanding 7 figures.

In retrospect, maybe the Pirates should have gambled the money. I dunno .... they apparently used some of this money to ink Quinton Miller, Robbie Grossman, and Justin Wilson.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:55 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
As I recall, the big problem was the Scheppers wanted to be paid like a top-15 pick. He did not believe that he should suffer a discount because of his injury.

When the Pirates worked him out, as Az noted, his velocity was equivalent to what my son threw as a high school freshman. He could not throw a breaking ball at that point. He was demanding 7 figures.

In retrospect, maybe the Pirates should have gambled the money. I dunno .... they apparently used some of this money to ink Quinton Miller, Robbie Grossman, and Justin Wilson.



That's just it, why is there a set budget in play here. We are spending nothing at the MLB level, would 1 or 2 million really hurt? Why can't we sign high end guys in round 1 and 2 AND get the HS kids later??? We basically punted on our 2nd round pick in the 2009 draft taking Pounders who has absolutely no projection while many higher end guys were available. Even in 2009 we left 1-2 million on the table while Den Dekker (ranked #92 among college kids this year), Cooper, and Heller (ranked in the top 30 freshman) went to college. When it comes to the draft or Latin America 1-2 million is a lot of money and can get you a high return. That same money means nothing at the big league level. Another point in case is Eduado Salcedo a high rated SS/3B prospect just signed with Atlanta for 1.5 million. There are two very interesting Cuban talents out there right now, 1b Jose Julio Ruiz and SS Adeiny Hechevarria, Ruiz is 25 and AAA ready with power, Adeiny is a much higher level kid that will get around 8-10 million. We have a clear need for power hitters, 1B, and SS, yet you here no mention of the Bucs showing interest.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:01 pm 
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Barrys Dopers wrote:
That's just it, why is there a set budget in play here. We are spending nothing at the MLB level, would 1 or 2 million really hurt? Why can't we sign high end guys in round 1 and 2 AND get the HS kids later???

I understand your point, but the fact of the matter is this: All teams - not just the Pirates - have a budget for the draft. The Pirates spending on draft picks the past two years has been the highest of any team in the majors. The Pirates have signed a number of top-flight players thought to be going to college or returning to college for senior year (Grossman, Miller, Wilson, Von Rosenberg, Dodson, Cain, Inman).

Would I prefer spending zero on Vazquez and using that money to sign Scheppers? Yes, I would. However, the suggestion that the Pirates are not spending on draft picks, or are saving money ala Daniel Moskos/Clint Johnston-type picks is not accurate.


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 Post subject: Re: BA Top 100 out today
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:24 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
Barrys Dopers wrote:
That's just it, why is there a set budget in play here. We are spending nothing at the MLB level, would 1 or 2 million really hurt? Why can't we sign high end guys in round 1 and 2 AND get the HS kids later???

I understand your point, but the fact of the matter is this: All teams - not just the Pirates - have a budget for the draft. The Pirates spending on draft picks the past two years has been the highest of any team in the majors. The Pirates have signed a number of top-flight players thought to be going to college or returning to college for senior year (Grossman, Miller, Wilson, Von Rosenberg, Dodson, Cain, Inman).

Would I prefer spending zero on Vazquez and using that money to sign Scheppers? Yes, I would. However, the suggestion that the Pirates are not spending on draft picks, or are saving money ala Daniel Moskos/Clint Johnston-type picks is not accurate.


We certainly are not doing anything as bad as the Moskos scenario, but Pounders was not a good pick based on talent by any rating system. Five picks later Detroit drafted Andy Oliver and paid him 1.5 million rather than the slot 670K we paid Brooks. Oliver is now the #4 prospect in their system, Pounders didn't even make our top 30. The next pick after Pounders was Mychel Givens who signed for a just over slot 800k and is now the 9th best prospect for Baltimore and is a high ceiling SS. How else can you explain Pounders at that pick?

BTW, I don't think we spent the most in each draft, I know Boston topped us in 2008 and the Nats last year, I think we were 2nd and 4th the last two drafts.


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