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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:24 am 
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Really Ollie? I live in an AL city too and many of the Rays fans I know (including season ticket holders) prefer National League rules. There is a hope amongst some fans, however far-fetched, that the Rays and Marlins switch leagues. I know I would support such a move as I am an NL fan and I would get to see the Bucs here at least once a year.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:41 am 
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Fans may be more open minded down there because you see both leagues during spring training. The Rays would probably be doing very well in the NL right now. I'll be seeing Tampa Bay here in Cleveland in a few eeeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:31 pm 
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I grew up in an AL city (Baltimore) with an old-school NL father (Cards fan) who didn't cotton to the DH rule one bit. I think Prince of PIttsburgh's observation that AL fans tend to be more open to NL rules than vice versa is pretty accurate. The divisions might be a little more stark among younger fans, I imagine.

But I'm gonna go ahead and say it: I prefer the DH. The mystique of the 7th inning double-switch doesn't really compensate, in my mind, for putting the bat in the hands of someone who's considered "good" if he posts an OPS north of .450 3 or 4 times a game. But that's just me. I prefer indoor plumbing, too. :mrgreen:

Flame away if you must, but Jim Leyland, among others, happens to agree:
Quote:
"Everyone in the world disagrees with me, including some managers, but I think managing in the American League is much more difficult for that very reason (having the designated hitter). In the National League, my situation is dictated for me. If I'm behind in the game, I've got to pinch hit. I've got to take my pitcher out. In the American League, you have to zero in. You have to know exactly when to take them out of there. In the National League, that's done for you."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_hitter

This doesn't change the underlying truth that Hanky is a douchebag of the highest order.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 2:46 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
This doesn't change the underlying truth that Hanky is a douchebag of the highest order.

I'm fairly certain that even Yankee fans will agree with this assertion.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:53 pm 
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LtCol Kojak Slaphead wrote:
I grew up in an AL city (Baltimore) with an old-school NL father (Cards fan) who didn't cotton to the DH rule one bit. I think Prince of PIttsburgh's observation that AL fans tend to be more open to NL rules than vice versa is pretty accurate. The divisions might be a little more stark among younger fans, I imagine.

But I'm gonna go ahead and say it: I prefer the DH. The mystique of the 7th inning double-switch doesn't really compensate, in my mind, for putting the bat in the hands of someone who's considered "good" if he posts an OPS north of .450 3 or 4 times a game. But that's just me. I prefer indoor plumbing, too. :mrgreen:

Flame away if you must, but Jim Leyland, among others, happens to agree:
Quote:
"Everyone in the world disagrees with me, including some managers, but I think managing in the American League is much more difficult for that very reason (having the designated hitter). In the National League, my situation is dictated for me. If I'm behind in the game, I've got to pinch hit. I've got to take my pitcher out. In the American League, you have to zero in. You have to know exactly when to take them out of there. In the National League, that's done for you."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_hitter

This doesn't change the underlying truth that Hanky is a douchebag of the highest order.

While I think that Leyland is a fine manager, he is often full of crap, and this is one of those times.

I doubt that there is a pitcher in the NL who is averaging three at bats a game, let alone 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:47 pm 
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Micah Owings has 39 PAs in 14 games as a pitcher :)

The thing is, from my viewpoint NL managers are rather reluctant to take a pitcher out for offensive purposes. Even if he's just hanging in there. Not pinch-hitting with starters around 100 pitches was one of Jim Tracy's signature moves...

It is just as much a point against a DH. More variety in the game, more depth needed, and more managerial moves.


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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:04 pm 
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Bukanier wrote:
Micah Owings has 39 PAs in 14 games as a pitcher :)

The thing is, from my viewpoint NL managers are rather reluctant to take a pitcher out for offensive purposes. Even if he's just hanging in there. Not pinch-hitting with starters around 100 pitches was one of Jim Tracy's signature moves...

It is just as much a point against a DH. More variety in the game, more depth needed, and more managerial moves.

Something that you must consider when you talk about adding the DH to the NL: the Pirates will have to find and pay 9 every day hitters instead of eight.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:19 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
While I think that Leyland is a fine manager, he is often full of crap, and this is one of those times.

I doubt that there is a pitcher in the NL who is averaging three at bats a game, let alone 4.


There might not be any single pitcher averaging 3 or 4 at bats a game

But how many times does his spot in the order come up a game?...A DH would eliminate using the bench up, making a double switch, and would allow you to save your pinch hitter for a key situation instead of replacing a pitcher in the 6th inning because hes over 100 pitches

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:19 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
Bukanier wrote:
Micah Owings has 39 PAs in 14 games as a pitcher :)

The thing is, from my viewpoint NL managers are rather reluctant to take a pitcher out for offensive purposes. Even if he's just hanging in there. Not pinch-hitting with starters around 100 pitches was one of Jim Tracy's signature moves...

It is just as much a point against a DH. More variety in the game, more depth needed, and more managerial moves.

Something that you must consider when you talk about adding the DH to the NL: the Pirates will have to find and pay 9 every day hitters instead of eight.


Ha! They've got you fooled...the Pirates only pay 4 every day hitters and fill the rest of the lineup card with scrubs!


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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:04 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
While I think that Leyland is a fine manager, he is often full of crap, and this is one of those times.

I doubt that there is a pitcher in the NL who is averaging three at bats a game, let alone 4.


There might not be any single pitcher averaging 3 or 4 at bats a game

But how many times does his spot in the order come up a game?...A DH would eliminate using the bench up, making a double switch, and would allow you to save your pinch hitter for a key situation instead of replacing a pitcher in the 6th inning because hes over 100 pitches

If you are using your best pinch hitter in the sixth inning, then you shouldn't be managing in the first place. Unless that moment IS the key situation, of course.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:50 pm 
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Kojak, really? Your father was a Cardinals fan? Was he from Missouri? I assume he followed them since the great '64-'68 teams. My mom and brother were huuuuge Cardinals fans! My mom didn't care for any other sport, only St. Louis Cardinals baseball. I was raised listening to Jack Buck and Mike Shannon doing Cardinals games. Becoming a Pirates fan by chance ('71 World Series) my mom and I had a fun rivalry with baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:04 am 
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Ollie wrote:
Kojak, really? Your father was a Cardinals fan? Was he from Missouri? I assume he followed them since the great '64-'68 teams. My mom and brother were huuuuge Cardinals fans! My mom didn't care for any other sport, only St. Louis Cardinals baseball. I was raised listening to Jack Buck and Mike Shannon doing Cardinals games. Becoming a Pirates fan by chance ('71 World Series) my mom and I had a fun rivalry with baseball.

He grew up in southern Illinois, about 90 minutes east of St Louis, where the only thing to do for fun was listening to Cards games on the radio. A generation earlier than the one you suggest, during the 40s — Musial, Slaughter, Schoedienst, et al. His dislike of the St. Louis Browns was deep enough to carry over to the Orioles once he moved to Baltimore.

My dad had his faults, but he did get me to two games of the '79 series, which buys him a lot of 'good-dad' credit.

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 Post subject: Re: Hank Steinbrenner: NL is at fault for Chien-Ming's injury
PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:05 pm 
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Wow.. it would be cool to go back in time and see that Cardinals team play. I wonder what the Pirates were doing in the forties.. maybe we had Ralph Kiner and Danny Murtaugh by then?


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