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 Post subject: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:28 pm 
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Bucs' opponents to date:
Florida is 15-11 (3-2 against Pirates)
Chicago is 16-10 (6-0)
St. Louis is 18-11 (1-1)
Philadelphia is 15-12 (2-1)
New York is 14-12 (1-1)
Los Angeles is 13-13 (2-1)
Atlanta is 12-14 (1-2)
Cincinnati is 12-17 (0-3)

The next ten include four games against Washington at 10-17, three games against San Francisco at 12-16 and three games against Atlanta at 12-14 (with Smoltz on the DL). Bucs have a 6-3 record against their opponents who are currently at .500 or worse.

Certainly would be nice to see them win the next 3 series and to rip off wins in 7 of the next 10 games to get to 18-19 leading into some big series against NL Central opponents. Yes, it is wishful thinking but not out of the realm of possibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:22 pm 
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It is surely a possibility to go 7-3 in the next ten. We seem to be getting better offensively and more important the starting pitching with Maholm, Gorzo, Snell and no more Morris is promosing.

I think we can easily win some games here and be in a better place before the others get to us.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:32 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
It is surely a possibility to go 7-3 in the next ten. We seem to be getting better offensively and more important the starting pitching with Maholm, Gorzo, Snell and no more Morris is promosing.

I beg to differ regarding Gorzo and Snell. Those two are nothing like the pitchers they were last year. Snell's velocity is down, and I think there's something horribly wrong with Gorzo.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:33 am 
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Would this new Pirate management have signed Snell to such a big long term contract without knowing he wasn't healthy? As far as Gorzo goes, he just doesn't seem to be in shape yet. A slow start for him to be sure but slowly getting better. I'll hold my breath for him to get it going before Adam LaRoche does............by the way, didn't someone say LaRoche is getting close? :? Hmm.........close meaning April is over and he only has one more month left before he figures out how to hit a beaseball again. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 1:49 am 
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Gorzo is hurt. I think it's pretty obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:38 am 
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bassoondirector wrote:
Would this new Pirate management have signed Snell to such a big long term contract without knowing he wasn't healthy?


I don't know if Snell is hurt or not, but his loss of speed and command don't look good. It is entirely possible that he was healthy when he signed the contract but injured himself afterwards, you know.

Quote:
As far as Gorzo goes, he just doesn't seem to be in shape yet.


I hope you're right.

Quote:
'll hold my breath for him to get it going before Adam LaRoche does............by the way, didn't someone say LaRoche is getting close? :? Hmm.........close meaning April is over and he only has one more month left before he figures out how to hit a beaseball again. :?


Laroche is 5-15 with three walks in the last four games. There's nothing wrong with that. Now that he's making better contact the homers will come, just as they did last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:20 am 
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Snell hasn't lost any speed, unless you are basing it on last game. Two games ago he was pounding away at his usual 91-94.

He has, by his own admission, this year started to work in much more off-speed stuff, and is learning not to throw his hardest on every pitch. He is holding his "big" stuff in reserve for those innings or stituations when he needs it.

He is simply maturing as a pitcher.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:32 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
bassoondirector wrote:
Would this new Pirate management have signed Snell to such a big long term contract without knowing he wasn't healthy?


I don't know if Snell is hurt or not, but his loss of speed and command don't look good. It is entirely possible that he was healthy when he signed the contract but injured himself afterwards, you know.

Quote:
As far as Gorzo goes, he just doesn't seem to be in shape yet.


I hope you're right.

Quote:
'll hold my breath for him to get it going before Adam LaRoche does............by the way, didn't someone say LaRoche is getting close? :? Hmm.........close meaning April is over and he only has one more month left before he figures out how to hit a beaseball again. :?


Laroche is 5-15 with three walks in the last four games. There's nothing wrong with that. Now that he's making better contact the homers will come, just as they did last year.


I agree there's nothing wrong with 5-15 and three walks in four games. I do thin there is something wrong with tanking the entire first month though.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:52 am 
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ZelieMike wrote:
He is simply maturing as a pitcher.


Me thinks I agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:56 am 
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Sorry guys, I wasn't trying to suggest that all is well with our starting pitching. I do think that it is possible to see progress and suggest that things are righting themselves. I was unaware that Gorzo had a back problem until after I posted. It sure scares me, but he seems to think that it's not a serious problem.

The offense seems to be contributions by different people as we go along but wow are Nady and McCloth off and running toward career type starts.

Things are looking better to me. Not world series better but hopefully good enough to enjoy watching for a change.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:31 pm 
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Quote:
The next ten include four games against Washington at 10-17, three games against San Francisco at 12-16 and three games against Atlanta at 12-14 (with Smoltz on the DL). Bucs have a 6-3 record against their opponents who are currently at .500 or worse.


Funny, I was watching the Nationals Braves game on MESN(Nationals Broadcast), and they were excited that Pittsburgh was coming to town, stating that it would be nice to get 3 of 4 or a sweep to get them on their way. Additionally, during the broadcast of the Pirates Mets 13-1 debacle, Ron Darling mentioned that it was "wasn't great to play this sort of game with all the kids(apparently field trip students) here and against a team like the Pirates.

Nice to see the effects of the 15 years of futulity taking its effect on our league wide respect. By the way, who the heck are the Nationals anyway? Have they ever won anything? How about trying to keep the team in the city for awhile before thinking yourselves above a historic team like the Pirates.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 12:41 pm 
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Piratefan13 wrote:
Quote:
The next ten include four games against Washington at 10-17, three games against San Francisco at 12-16 and three games against Atlanta at 12-14 (with Smoltz on the DL). Bucs have a 6-3 record against their opponents who are currently at .500 or worse.


Funny, I was watching the Nationals Braves game on MESN(Nationals Broadcast), and they were excited that Pittsburgh was coming to town, stating that it would be nice to get 3 of 4 or a sweep to get them on their way. Additionally, during the broadcast of the Pirates Mets 13-1 debacle, Ron Darling mentioned that it was "wasn't great to play this sort of game with all the kids(apparently field trip students) here and against a team like the Pirates.

Nice to see the effects of the 15 years of futulity taking its effect on our league wide respect. By the way, who the heck are the Nationals anyway? Have they ever won anything? How about trying to keep the team in the city for awhile before thinking yourselves above a historic team like the Pirates.


I agree with you totally. Who are the Nationals? But the flip side ... how can you blame anyone for any jokes/criticism of the Pirate, a team on the verge of the longest connsectutive years of losing in the history of pro sports. I hate it, but what defense can we have from that kind of crap?


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:08 am 
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Odalis Perez always does well against us, so last night's result doesn't surprise me. Lannon goes tonight (Friday), he's young but impressive. Could be a long night, especially if Doumatrait has his Reds uni on under his Pirates one. Chico on Saturday is our best bet for a win. He's been getting shelled plus he's up against Maholm (which Paul will show-up?). Redding on Sunday is the type of pitcher who will look like Cy Young against us. Journeyman right hander with a 95 mph fastball and control problems.

Right now, a split is probably the most we can hope for, I really don't see us reeling off three in a row.


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:56 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Snell hasn't lost any speed, unless you are basing it on last game. Two games ago he was pounding away at his usual 91-94.

He has, by his own admission, this year started to work in much more off-speed stuff, and is learning not to throw his hardest on every pitch. He is holding his "big" stuff in reserve for those innings or stituations when he needs it.

He is simply maturing as a pitcher.

ZM


I'm basing it on his start in Chicago and the one after it.

If "maturing as a pitcher" means giving up more hits, more runs, more walks, less strikeouts, and getting knocked out of games earlier, then I'll take an immature pitcher, thank you.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:19 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I'm basing it on his start in Chicago and the one after it.


Then you need to define "loss of speed. After Snell got through the first two innings and loosened-up, his velocity was exactly where ZM said it was, 92-94 MPH.

93 to Patterson in the 3rd
94 to Lee in the 3rd
93 & 94 to Ramirez in the 3rd
92,93,94,94 to DeRosa in the 4th
93 to Soto in the 4th
93 twice to Theriot in the 4th
93 to Lee in the 5th
93 to Ramirez in the 5th

Lots of sliders and 92 MPH fastballs in between: 6IP, 5Ks, 1BB, 3Runs

You were saying?

sisyphus wrote:
If "maturing as a pitcher" means giving up more hits, more runs, more walks, less strikeouts, and getting knocked out of games earlier, then I'll take an immature pitcher, thank you.


Hyperbole alert!


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:55 pm 
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Argentum wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I'm basing it on his start in Chicago and the one after it.


Then you need to define "loss of speed. After Snell got through the first two innings and loosened-up, his velocity was exactly where ZM said it was, 92-94 MPH.

93 to Patterson in the 3rd
94 to Lee in the 3rd
93 & 94 to Ramirez in the 3rd
92,93,94,94 to DeRosa in the 4th
93 to Soto in the 4th
93 twice to Theriot in the 4th
93 to Lee in the 5th
93 to Ramirez in the 5th

Lots of sliders and 92 MPH fastballs in between: 6IP, 5Ks, 1BB, 3Runs

You were saying?

sisyphus wrote:
If "maturing as a pitcher" means giving up more hits, more runs, more walks, less strikeouts, and getting knocked out of games earlier, then I'll take an immature pitcher, thank you.


Hyperbole alert!

You need to look up hyperbole, because that ain't it. Those are all facts.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 10:48 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I don't know if Snell is hurt or not, but his loss of speed and command don't look good. It is entirely possible that he was healthy when he signed the contract but injured himself afterwards, you know.


ZelieMike wrote:
Snell hasn't lost any speed, unless you are basing it on last game. Two games ago he was pounding away at his usual 91-94.


sisyphus wrote:
I'm basing it on his start in Chicago and the one after it.


Argentum wrote:
Then you need to define "loss of speed. After Snell got through the first two innings and loosened-up, his velocity was exactly where ZM said it was, 92-94 MPH.

93 to Patterson in the 3rd
94 to Lee in the 3rd
93 & 94 to Ramirez in the 3rd
92,93,94,94 to DeRosa in the 4th
93 to Soto in the 4th
93 twice to Theriot in the 4th
93 to Lee in the 5th
93 to Ramirez in the 5th

Lots of sliders and 92 MPH fastballs in between: 6IP, 5Ks, 1BB, 3Runs

You were saying?


sisyphus wrote:
Those are all facts.


:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 12:03 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
I'm basing it on his start in Chicago and the one after it.

If "maturing as a pitcher" means giving up more hits, more runs, more walks, less strikeouts, and getting knocked out of games earlier, then I'll take an immature pitcher, thank you.


"Hey, how can you criticize Snell's performance so far without raging against Gorzellany??"

/s
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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:01 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
I'm basing it on his start in Chicago and the one after it.

If "maturing as a pitcher" means giving up more hits, more runs, more walks, less strikeouts, and getting knocked out of games earlier, then I'll take an immature pitcher, thank you.


"Hey, how can you criticize Snell's performance so far without raging against Gorzellany??"

/s
Sisy and his number one fan,
TPFKAE (The poster formerly known as Econo)

I didn't criticize Snell's performance. I criticized the "maturing as a pitcher" remark.

I am concerned about Snell's performance thus far, but I was relieved to see him consistently working in the nineties yesterday. If you could go back to the old board you would find that I was expressing similar concerns about Gorzelanny BEFORE SPRING TRAINING EVEN STARTED due to the abuse Tracy heaped on his arm last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Time to get healthy?
PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:31 pm 
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I propose that we open a special forum for Bucfan, Sisy and Wilton et al where they can slag each other off to their hearts' content and the rest of us don't have to suffer. :idea:

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