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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:21 pm 
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This is a tough call.

My gut reaction to the question is that, with a team that actually has some good things going on, why would you go and get rid of the good things? Instead, we should keep the good things we have and try to improve in the areas where we aren't as good.

I mean if we could magically add an ace and some decent upgrades at 1st and 3rd, I really believe we would be a legitimate contender in the NL. Having good players has not been a very common thing for us and I really hate to just dump the ones we have for the sake of yet another "rebuild." We all know how from experience how tough that is, with all the things that have to fall into place at the right time for that strategy to actually produce a winning team.

Plus I think there is value in being "in the hunt" especially for a team that has been down as long as we have. Even if we fall short of the playoffs, being in the hunt will help produce a winning environment in our clubhouse, and give the players some pride in the uniform to be playing meaningful games into the latter part of the season. It will give young players and veterans alike reason to hope that they could actually be part of a winning team for this franchise, that it's not totally impossible, and stop them thinking that if they ever want to win anything they will have to get out of Pittsburgh. Plus if you fall short you can always go out and upgrade in the off-season, and maybe getting close would inspire ownership to spend more after seeing how a team "in the hunt" would energize the fans and create buzz, which it would do in a big way.

Unfortunately though, we can't fix our problems with magic. Aces and good corner players are hard to find and most decent ones are too expensive for us. Also, like others have mentioned, guys like Nady, Nate, Phil, and maybe even Bay are outperforming their historical levels of play, and over the course of the season our offense will probably cool down. Plus if these guys are going to be free agents, and we have no chance to retain them, you probably do have to deal them out.

Like I said, tough call but definitely wait and see where we stand one month from now.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:38 pm 
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I think the question is moot until we're actually in the hunt. Right now we're in 4th place and we're ten games out of first.

Even if we do end up winning some games here in June, I'd trade. We've got to build a good core here. The 2003 Royals are a great cautionary tale of how little a single winning season can mean.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Good to see you, charlie. We all value your insightful posts.

I know Bay and Nady have to go.. I hate that.. I don't want to see Bay and Jack Wilson playing with other ball clubs. Am I crazy? I want to keep Jack!!


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:19 am 
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charlie wrote:
I think the question is moot until we're actually in the hunt. Right now we're in 4th place and we're ten games out of first.

Even if we do end up winning some games here in June, I'd trade. We've got to build a good core here. The 2003 Royals are a great cautionary tale of how little a single winning season can mean.


Agree on all points. And even if the Bucs were in the hunt, it would be in a league that's significantly weaker than the AL. Up here, they laugh at how weak the NL is and point to the last four World Series, three of which were 4-game sweeps by the Red Sox, the White Sox, and the Red Sox again.

Ultimately, I want a Pirate team that would be competitive if it were in the same division with Boston and the Yankees. That day isn't even a faint blip on the radar screen yet.

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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:35 am 
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See me in a month when this will be a much easier decision to make...I'm not convinced one way or the other yet as to what the Pirates should do.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:03 am 
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Ollie wrote:
Good to see you, charlie. We all value your insightful posts.

I know Bay and Nady have to go.. I hate that.. I don't want to see Bay and Jack Wilson playing with other ball clubs. Am I crazy? I want to keep Jack!!

Sounds like you might suffer from empty-nest syndrome. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:23 pm 
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I've always been committed to winning.


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:06 am 
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Jeremy wrote:
I've always been committed to winning.

That would be "ambiguity" for the win. Check and mate, sir.

The firing of Bill Bavasi in Seattle this week should provide a tidy little cautionary tale about going for it with a mediocre but overachieving team. (Not that the Pirates have been either of those things over the past 4 games). To be sure, Bavasi did some Littlefield-esque deals (see: contracts for Carlos Silva, Jarrod Washburn, Richie Sexson; also, trading the farm for Erik Bedard) to put the Mariners where they are today, but the root of the problem was thinking that last year's "why not" team — who outperformed their Pythagorean record by 9 wins — was anything but an aberration. Most everyone outside of Seattle's front office and a small portion of their fanbase could see that.

Take the on-field positives — Nate and Doumit busting out — for what they are. Be happy that Bay and Nady are putting up numbers that will maximize returns at the deadline. Be encouraged by the draft and other infrastructural improvements the club has made in the past 6-8 months. And steel yourself for a hurricane of whining and told-you-so's when NH starts remaking the ML roster in earnest, no matter what their record is.

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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:08 am 
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Time to get realistic about this team. It is becoming clearer by the day that we are not a 500 team and not in the hunt for the wild card, and certainly not the division title.

That being said, it's time to forget the talk of keeping these winners together and making a run. How are we doing so far against the AL?

There is some real value in Bay, Nady, and Wilson now, and it's now we should be shopping them to other GMs. I also don't want us to get worse but don't think winning is in the cards for this bunch. If we wait too long we'll get very little for the guys we could move for something today. Isn't it a mistake to wait and shorten the time these guys have til FA and therefore less marketability? and if their great start flattens out, aren't we risking getting nothing again. :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?


[u]IT'S TIME TO ACT NOW!![u]

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:15 am 
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I just re-read my last post and man does it read negativity. Sorry about that but right now that's how she looks to me.'Can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.'

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


Last edited by Substitute2 on Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:18 am 
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Hey Bassoon-man, that quote was for you. Tried to give you some raw meat for your artistic and funny mind to latch on. Come on, make us all laugh.

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2011 Will Be Our Year -- well make that 2012 (just saying) So it looks like 2013 now - how long must this go on!
THIS IS IT-- NO MORE STREAK!!! *** Finally*** Time to win it in 2014


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 Post subject: Re: Roll Call: who's still committed to rebuilding?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:44 pm 
Substitute2 wrote:
Hey Bassoon-man, that quote was for you. Tried to give you some raw meat for your artistic and funny mind to latch on. Come on, make us all laugh.


I'm committed to winning. That involves a healthy dose of "rebuilding" but it also involves much more than that.


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