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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:06 am 
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This is one of the dumber discussions we've had on this board.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:59 am 
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The real scum buckets here are the agents. They are the greatest parasites ever. The bring nothing to the dance. They have created a system for themselves to become mega-rich and have no real claim to it.

The owners at least risk the capital investment and because of their risk are handsomely if not unfairly rewarded.
The players bring all the talent that attracts the fans and create all the value in the product.
The agents suck off the players and owners and if defined that qualifies them as parasites. Their purpose is to protect the players but often I wonder who works for whom. Are they dictating everything like where and when to sign-- play or not play? They are the outgrowth of honest brokers who represented the best interest of the players.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:16 am 
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The agents are performing a valuable service. If they were not, they would not be getting hired.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:13 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Az Bucco fan wrote:
Pretty close to collusion.



Oh my God. I guess that makes the whole idea of the draft unfair too.

How many professions do you know that do not allow you to choose who your employer is?


Medical residencies.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:53 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
The agents are performing a valuable service. If they were not, they would not be getting hired.


Yup.....driving up the price of everything has done wonders for baseball.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:06 pm 
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Willton wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
If Scott Boras has a problem with the draft let him bitch and moan to the Players Association. The rules for the draft were set by the CBA.

The Players Association doesn't give a damn about people who are not part of the Players Association. The MLBPA is only concerned about the interests of their current members, and they have no problem screwing amateur players hoping to join the league in order to further said interests. Pointing to the CBA doesn't hold much water to me considering that the people most affected by the draft (the draftees) did not have their interests represented when the CBA was formed.

True, but who do you want negotiating the CBA, agents? Every major sport has a draft, antitrust exemption or not, and the conditions of those drafts were all negotiated by the respective unions.

The only problem I have with the baseball draft is the fact that it doesn't apply to foreigners, like it does for every other sport.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
The real scum buckets here are the agents. They are the greatest parasites ever. The bring nothing to the dance. They have created a system for themselves to become mega-rich and have no real claim to it.

Check out the average MLB salary before agents started appearing on the scene and compare to the average salary today.

Quote:
The owners at least risk the capital investment and because of their risk are handsomely if not unfairly rewarded.
The players bring all the talent that attracts the fans and create all the value in the product.
The agents suck off the players and owners and if defined that qualifies them as parasites. Their purpose is to protect the players but often I wonder who works for whom. Are they dictating everything like where and when to sign-- play or not play? They are the outgrowth of honest brokers who represented the best interest of the players.

The owners were nothing more than slave drivers for 100 years, and they'd go back to being slave drivers in an instant if they could get away with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:10 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The agents are performing a valuable service. If they were not, they would not be getting hired.


Yup.....driving up the price of everything has done wonders for baseball.

Baseball is more profitable today than it ever was in the days before agents and unions.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:30 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
The owners were nothing more than slave drivers for 100 years, and they'd go back to being slave drivers in an instant if they could get away with it.

Exactly. And I noted in another post that the middle and small revenue are the only thing keeping the large revenue teams from driving competitors into oblivion and then cutting player salaries by a huge amount.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:56 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Willton wrote:
How many professions do you know that do not allow you to choose who your employer is?


Medical residencies.

Not that I approve of that practice, but at least medical professionals become more valuable the longer they practice. Baseball players have a smaller window of opportunity to get market value for their services, and they are usually most marketable at the time they are drafted.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:00 pm 
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Bucfan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
The owners were nothing more than slave drivers for 100 years, and they'd go back to being slave drivers in an instant if they could get away with it.

Exactly. And I noted in another post that the middle and small revenue are the only thing keeping the large revenue teams from driving competitors into oblivion and then cutting player salaries by a huge amount.

What you are describing is called predatory pricing, although it's not immediately apparent because it's in the labor realm. However, as any student of competition law and economics knows, predatory pricing is a very difficult and typically unrewarding practice, even without the legal bars against such practices. Rarely does it make sense to engage in such a practice.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The agents are performing a valuable service. If they were not, they would not be getting hired.


Yup.....driving up the price of everything has done wonders for baseball.

That's irrelevant as to whether agents are providing a valuable service.

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Willton wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
Ralphie wrote:
The agents are performing a valuable service. If they were not, they would not be getting hired.


Yup.....driving up the price of everything has done wonders for baseball.

That's irrelevant as to whether agents are providing a valuable service.


Value is a totally subjective concept. Plenty of players negotiate their own contracts. It really comes down to what services they provide as opposed to what percentage of your money they want. I'd argue that their value isn't as great as many players think they are. Rather, they've simply become an accepted part of sports.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:22 pm 
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I must disagree. There simply aren't "plenty" of players who negotiate their own contracts. I bet you could put them on the fingers of one hand.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:50 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Value is a totally subjective concept. Plenty of players negotiate their own contracts. It really comes down to what services they provide as opposed to what percentage of your money they want. I'd argue that their value isn't as great as many players think they are. Rather, they've simply become an accepted part of sports.

That's patently false. I defy you to name 10 players that negotiate their own contracts without the assistance of an agent or "advisor."

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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:17 pm 
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Willton wrote:
However, as any student of competition law and economics knows, predatory pricing is a very difficult and typically unrewarding practice, even without the legal bars against such practices. Rarely does it make sense to engage in such a practice.

The key to non-market pricing being successful is that the product in question is not replaceable. Energy is a prime example. It is not like people can go without heating oil, or transportation.

The same is true of major league owners. The players have no equivalent opportunity. Japanese baseball, Korean baseball, etc. are not equivalent to the major leagues. With an irreplaceable commodity, pricing designed to kill off competition works.


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 Post subject: Re: Update on unsigned first round picks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:02 am 
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Interesting concept. Not sure it would complete though. As we've seen in football and other sports, as soon as you oligopoly forms and jobs become more scarce for competent ballplayers, new leagues would form to compete. The MLB equivalent of the AFL and ABA or WHA would form.

ZM

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