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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:41 am 
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Animal wrote:
JimY wrote:
Morgan doesn't suck. That's silly. Long term he may still be a 4th OF kind of guy, and I love the trade, but he was an exciting player to watch here. I like Tony Plush, and I think that he was very good for the team. Do you think it was a coincidence that we were playing decent until we traded him, and then the Nats became decent?


I don't think it is a coincidence at all. Teams need players like Nyjer Morgan. That's another reason I was so against the trade.


Teams need fundamentally challenged idiots?


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:15 am 
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[quote][Teams need fundamentally challenged idiots?/quote]

Apparently message boards do. Who takes their hatred to a level so far that they use "I hate _____" in their signature? Good Lord, seems unhealthy to me. What'd Nyjer do to you?


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:19 am 
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Jack Round Tripper wrote:
Quote:
[Teams need fundamentally challenged idiots?/quote]

Apparently message boards do. Who takes their hatred to a level so far that they use "I hate _____" in their signature? Good Lord, seems unhealthy to me. What'd Nyjer do to you?



It's not Morgan, he's an idiot, but a harmless one. It's the unhealthy fixation that people had/have with him. When he was traded, people acted like the FO had come to their houses and kicked their dogs and felt up their wives. I didn't get it then and I don't get it now. TWO different threads on the board about a trade that was basically swapping spare parts. That's what's unhealthy.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:46 pm 
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Things are so black and white in this argument it's insane. Either Morgan is an idiot and a crap player, or he is amazing.
I'll take neither.
He is a good player. He was a big part of our early success. But he wasn't part of the future. He just wasn't.
I would do this trade over a thousand times, and yet every time it would hurt, because he was such a fun player to watch. His personality is huge for a young team and gives a bad team some swagger. But he is 29 and pretty much a rookie. He does make mistakes. He overslides the bag constantly.
Lastings has more of a future than Nyjer.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 12:57 pm 
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It's not even so much about Morgan the player, because as a player I think he's serviceable. It's about the reaction that he caused when he was traded. Everywhere I went, I saw meltdowns of incredible proportions. People calling for boycotts of the Pirates. People renouncing the Pirates as their favorite team. The race card got played more than a few times. All this over a guy who's a starter on maybe 3-4 MLB teams. For the record, I think the trade amounted to swapping spare parts for spare parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:15 pm 
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Anyone can argue the returns on the trades but to wish that the actual players like Morgan, McLouth, Sanchez and Grabow were back here like they would make us any better is just foolish talk. First off, they were all here and we still stunk. Secondly, not a single one of those players is a core player or an impact player. Thirdly...

Morgan - 29 years old. He's old. Don't let his youthful appearance fool you. He's old. You don't hold onto those guys, you trade them when they approach that age IMO. Perhaps the return currently stinks but this is all about the future. Quite possible that in 2 years, Joel Hanrahan could be fairly dominant as a set up guy or closer, maybe Milledge is able to turn it around (he's still young). What do you think Nyjer Morgan will be doing by then? If kept he's not really helping our team. He's a CF, he lacks any sort of power to play a corner OF position. Cutch is our CF'er of the future. Morgan was easily expendable and wasn't going to help us be much or any better. I miss his defense, but thems the breaks looking towards the future.

Freddy Sanchez was going to be 32, he's older than his age because his body is beat. He's injured now, not a whole lot less. It would be assinine to extend a contract to a guy that is going to be a liability in a couple of years. Delwyn Young is slowly getting better defensively (Freddy wasn't great defensively at 2B when he converted over), 5-6 years younger with a good bat. No brainer and we got tim alderson in return...again NO BRAINER

Nate McLouth is batting around .260 for the Nats, was hitting around that for us, he's afraid to steal bags in fear of getting caught, he's afriad to make above average plays in the field to avoid his fielding percentage dipping (hence why his UZR is low). Cutch is 4 years younger and far better than McLouth. No brainer. Maybe one doesn't like the return, but McLouth was overrated.

John Grabow isn't even a lefty specialist. Look at his splits. He's nothing more than a left handed bullpen reliever with average stuff and stats. He's also 30 years old, 31 this fall.He's also spent some time on the injury list. John Grabow isn't a difference maker at all.

Anyone can question the return however none of these guys were either going to be missed nor were they going to make a difference going forward, if anything they would be guys we'd be screaming to dump in the future.


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 Post subject: Race Card??
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:18 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
It's not even so much about Morgan the player, because as a player I think he's serviceable. It's about the reaction that he caused when he was traded. Everywhere I went, I saw meltdowns of incredible proportions. People calling for boycotts of the Pirates. People renouncing the Pirates as their favorite team. The race card got played more than a few times. All this over a guy who's a starter on maybe 3-4 MLB teams. For the record, I think the trade amounted to swapping spare parts for spare parts.



They traded a black player and a white player for a black player and a white player. How can anybody make any kind of racial accusation??

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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:52 pm 
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Kipper wrote:
Morgan - 29 years old. He's old. Don't let his youthful appearance fool you. He's old.

Freddy Sanchez was going to be 32, he's older than his age because his body is beat.

John Grabow He's also 30 years old, 31 this fall.



I hate you Kipper.

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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:39 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Kipper wrote:
Morgan - 29 years old. He's old. Don't let his youthful appearance fool you. He's old.

Freddy Sanchez was going to be 32, he's older than his age because his body is beat.

John Grabow He's also 30 years old, 31 this fall.



I hate you Kipper.

I was going to be really mad at Kipper, but fell asleep in the midst of reading his post.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:36 am 
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My novels are a great read if you can sift through the typos and excellent grammar :D


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 Post subject: Re: Race Card??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:07 am 
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Animal wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
It's not even so much about Morgan the player, because as a player I think he's serviceable. It's about the reaction that he caused when he was traded. Everywhere I went, I saw meltdowns of incredible proportions. People calling for boycotts of the Pirates. People renouncing the Pirates as their favorite team. The race card got played more than a few times. All this over a guy who's a starter on maybe 3-4 MLB teams. For the record, I think the trade amounted to swapping spare parts for spare parts.



They traded a black player and a white player for a black player and a white player. How can anybody make any kind of racial accusation??



You must have missed it when someone wrote that Chris Duffy would still be our centerfielder if he has played like Morgan.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:29 am 
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I too got mad at Kipper but then got bored and had to skip the second half of his post. But I completely disagree with his initial point.

29 is not old. Most guys are performing at their peak level at that age, and will continue to do so for another 2 or 3 years. In general, a gradual decline begins around age 32.

I believe that Nyjer will be a solid contributor for many years to come.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:15 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
29 is not old. Most guys are performing at their peak level at that age, and will continue to do so for another 2 or 3 years. In general, a gradual decline begins around age 32.

While that is certainly true for some, and may be true for Morgan because he did not enter the majors until later in his career, the fact is that the best years for hitters are from ages 27-31, and when narrowed down to a 3-year span, the best years are ages 27-29.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/shareit/hXKg

In other words, Morgan is at his "peak" right now. Statistically, he is expected to have 1 or 2 more "peak" years and then decline.


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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Ok so I was off by 1 year on how many more peak years he can expect. That doesn't make him old.


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 Post subject: Re: Race Card??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:03 pm 
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Jeremy wrote:
Animal wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
It's not even so much about Morgan the player, because as a player I think he's serviceable. It's about the reaction that he caused when he was traded. Everywhere I went, I saw meltdowns of incredible proportions. People calling for boycotts of the Pirates. People renouncing the Pirates as their favorite team. The race card got played more than a few times. All this over a guy who's a starter on maybe 3-4 MLB teams. For the record, I think the trade amounted to swapping spare parts for spare parts.



They traded a black player and a white player for a black player and a white player. How can anybody make any kind of racial accusation??



You must have missed it when someone wrote that Chris Duffy would still be our centerfielder if he has played like Morgan.


I still don't understand that. I took it to mean that if Duffy could maintain ANY success for more than two weeks, and would not have quit on his team, what 3 or 4 times?, that he would still be here. And in addition, if you want to try and play the race card, it is backwards if you are saying Duffy would be here instead of Morgan for the same play.

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 Post subject: Re: Great trades this year !!!!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:47 pm 
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Ralphie wrote:
I too got mad at Kipper but then got bored and had to skip the second half of his post. But I completely disagree with his initial point.

29 is not old. Most guys are performing at their peak level at that age, and will continue to do so for another 2 or 3 years. In general, a gradual decline begins around age 32.

I believe that Nyjer will be a solid contributor for many years to come.


:( still trying to figure iout why my novel was hated :D

29 might not be old for every player, but to me there's still risk involved with a player climbing up to that age and going into the future it's always wise to consider the age of a player. Maybe Morgan plays at a nice clip for the next fews and limits injuries. It is always a possibility but hitting that age... there's always the higher probability of decline heading forward.

Age of Morgan isn't really the biggest reason for trading him, it's a factor sure, but to me, the kid is a CF'er. His game is built to be a CF'er not a corner OF'er so with Cutch getting the call up, it made sense to trade Morgan at a pretty high value.


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