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 Post subject: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:48 pm 
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4366335
I've always found it peculiar that the Sawx have remained relatively bulletproof in the steroids kerfuffle thus far.

Well, no more.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Remember who wrote the Mitchell report and where he worked at the time?

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Well Manny was known and Ortiz isn't much of a shocker to me. I never thought he was naturally hitting one handed homeruns.


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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:21 pm 
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I still suspect V-Tek's name is on that list. Damon, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:01 pm 
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I'm really starting to lose respect for Red Sox fans. I have talked to two today and I asked them the same question...do you think Barry Bonds is the all-time home run king? They both said no way, Hank Aaron. I followed this up by asking if they think the Red Sox should give back their World Series trophy. Both thought I was crazy, everyone in baseball cheated. I asked again if they think Bonds should be HR king because everyone in this era cheated. Still no. I then told them the Pirates have not had anyone linked to steroids. Should a team like the Pirates be World Series champs because they didn't cheat? Both stuttered and said "Pirates suck". Nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:51 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I'm really starting to lose respect for Red Sox fans. I have talked to two today and I asked them the same question...do you think Barry Bonds is the all-time home run king? They both said no way, Hank Aaron. I followed this up by asking if they think the Red Sox should give back their World Series trophy. Both thought I was crazy, everyone in baseball cheated. I asked again if they think Bonds should be HR king because everyone in this era cheated. Still no. I then told them the Pirates have not had anyone linked to steroids. Should a team like the Pirates be World Series champs because they didn't cheat? Both stuttered and said "Pirates suck". Nice.

If Brian Giles wasn't on steroids I'll eat every one of my hats.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:53 pm 
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sisyphus wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
I'm really starting to lose respect for Red Sox fans. I have talked to two today and I asked them the same question...do you think Barry Bonds is the all-time home run king? They both said no way, Hank Aaron. I followed this up by asking if they think the Red Sox should give back their World Series trophy. Both thought I was crazy, everyone in baseball cheated. I asked again if they think Bonds should be HR king because everyone in this era cheated. Still no. I then told them the Pirates have not had anyone linked to steroids. Should a team like the Pirates be World Series champs because they didn't cheat? Both stuttered and said "Pirates suck". Nice.

If Brian Giles wasn't on steroids I'll eat every one of my hats.


I always wondered about Kendall too...

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:56 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
sisyphus wrote:
IA Pirate wrote:
I'm really starting to lose respect for Red Sox fans. I have talked to two today and I asked them the same question...do you think Barry Bonds is the all-time home run king? They both said no way, Hank Aaron. I followed this up by asking if they think the Red Sox should give back their World Series trophy. Both thought I was crazy, everyone in baseball cheated. I asked again if they think Bonds should be HR king because everyone in this era cheated. Still no. I then told them the Pirates have not had anyone linked to steroids. Should a team like the Pirates be World Series champs because they didn't cheat? Both stuttered and said "Pirates suck". Nice.

If Brian Giles wasn't on steroids I'll eat every one of my hats.


I always wondered about Kendall too...

If Kendall was on steroids then we have definitive proof that steroid use has no effect on power hitting.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:09 pm 
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While not a power hitter, look at his numbers jump between 1998 and 2001...

98- 12 HRs, 36 2B's, 26 steals, .327 avg, .473 slug, .411 on base
99- 8 HR's, 20 2B's, 20 steals, .332 avg, .511 slug, .428 on base (78 games)
00- 14 HR's, 33 2B's, 22 steals, .320 avg, .470 slug, .412 on base
01- 10 HR's, 22 2B's, 13 steals, .266 avg, .358 slug, .335 on base

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:18 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
While not a power hitter, look at his numbers jump between 1998 and 2001...

98- 12 HRs, 36 2B's, 26 steals, .327 avg, .473 slug, .411 on base
99- 8 HR's, 20 2B's, 20 steals, .332 avg, .511 slug, .428 on base (78 games)
00- 14 HR's, 33 2B's, 22 steals, .320 avg, .470 slug, .412 on base
01- 10 HR's, 22 2B's, 13 steals, .266 avg, .358 slug, .335 on base

Look at the power numbers this way (the batting average and OBP progress pretty much the same way):

Age 22 - .401
Age 23 - .434
Age 24 - .473
Age 25 - .511
Age 26 - .470
Age 27 - .358.

Until his age 27 season the progression looks pretty much like nothing more than normal, steady improvement from a young player. The real shocker was the total disappearance of power at age 27. If you're saying that he was using steroids for his entire career until then, then you need to figure out an explanation for why he stopped. Kendall turned 27 in 2001, two seasons before drug testing started. Why would he suddenly stop right then? It doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't have any idea why Kendall forgot how to hit after 2000, but I seriously doubt that steroids had anything to do with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Not steroids, but maybe some performance enhancer that was illegal after 2001...Perhaps to help with his ankle injury...
Him and Giles were friends, I couldnt imagine the one doing it and the other not...

I find it odd with the production drop off too, thats why I think there was some PED was being taken...

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I say keep the $50 and ban him anyway...

For those jumping ship, we'll keep the bandwagon warm for you...


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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:57 pm 
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nad69dan wrote:
Not steroids, but maybe some performance enhancer that was illegal after 2001...Perhaps to help with his ankle injury...
Him and Giles were friends, I couldnt imagine the one doing it and the other not...

I find it odd with the production drop off too, thats why I think there was some PED was being taken...

There was no testing, so there was no reason to stop. Also, Kendall's best two seasons immediately preceded the ankle injury. I could believe that Kendall used something, but I couldn't believe that he'd quit for no reason at all if he did.

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 Post subject: Re: Manny & Big Papi tested positive in '03
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Giles is a guy I suspect, based upon his massive power output from 1999 until testing began, and his sudden and rapid descent when testing went into effect.


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