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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:50 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
CELEBRATE!

This trade is absolutely, unquestionably outstanding! Like someone said earlier, I would have taken Clement straight up for Wilson and Snell. Clement will more than likely play 1st and be a backup catcher. I haven't had time to digest this and really take a look but this deal is AMAZING!

You're obviously an Iowa apologist, IA. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:53 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
You're obviously an Iowa apologist, IA. :)



I have no idea what you are talking about... :P

Because of that connection I have followed him for the past few years. Kid can flat-out hit. He's a gap machine. I see a potential of 30-40 doubles and 20-30 HRs in the Majors.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:03 pm 
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DK Tweets: #Pirates paying total of $3,308,702.19 in Wilson/Snell trade


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:06 pm 
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burghermeister wrote:
DK Tweets: #Pirates paying total of $3,308,702.19 in Wilson/Snell trade


So I was only off $2 million on the high side. :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:11 pm 
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I think we overpayed by $0.19.

8-)


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:11 pm 
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He must be fabulous. That is why he is going straight to Indianapolis. Probably a killer in AAA ball.

Makes room on the roster for Bryan Bixler, though.

I have heard that the Bucs will announce shortly Sanchez and Grabow to SF, in return for Jesus Guzman, Eugenio Velez, and Sergio Romo.

It's a done deal, just waiting for the t's to be crossed and the I's dotted.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:12 pm 
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Dave Cameron of fangraphs weighs in.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-seattle-pittsburgh-deal
Cameron is a founder of the U.S.S. Mariner fan board, a huge fan of Seattle Mariners GM Jack Zduriencik and recently a fairly outspoken critic of NH, so that he chalks this up as a clear Pirate victory is very noteworthy.

One question raised here: just how bad are Clement's knees?

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Is it my hopeful thinking?..or is Doumit is doing a much better job behind the plate since he's come back. I don't ever remember him aggressively blocking balls like he's done since his return. And his throwing has been pretty good too. If he's playing better defense..I see no reason to move him to 1B. As good as JJ was playing, I don't think he's quite the offensive threat Ryan is. Hate to see Grabow go..but he's been very hittable (hard) recently and I don't think he's the go to set-up guy at this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:14 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
He must be fabulous. That is why he is going straight to Indianapolis. Probably a killer in AAA ball.

Makes room on the roster for Bryan Bixler, though.

I have heard that the Bucs will announce shortly Sanchez and Grabow to SF, in return for Jesus Guzman, Eugenio Velez, and Sergio Romo.

It's a done deal, just waiting for the t's to be crossed and the I's dotted.


Steve- if you don't know anything about the guys we acquired (which is obvious), then why do you feel the need to spout off your uneducated drivel?


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:17 pm 
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Because you guys just seem to swallow this stuff....hook, line and sinker. I would bet if NH told you all to go jump in the Allegheny, you'd do it. They just keep spewing it out and you guys keep sucking it in. You don't question anything, you just keep buying. It makes me wish I was selling you vaccuum cleaners.....I bet you'd buy anything I sold you, by telling you "it will work in 2012, if not then 2015".

"just how bad are Clement's knees?"

That's just a bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Because you guys just seem to swallow this stuff....hook, line and sinker. I would bet if NH told you all to go jump in the Allegheny, you'd do it. They just keep spewing it out and you guys keep sucking it in. You don't question anything, you just keep buying. It makes me wish I was selling you vaccuum cleaners.....I bet you'd buy anything I sold you, by telling you "it will work in 2012, if not then 2015".

"just how bad are Clement's knees?"

That's just a bonus.


Holy crap man...show some sort of positive attitude once in 47634869376 posts. It's not all doom and gloom just yet. Give it some time.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:22 pm 
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If I were a betting man (and I was until Bertie showed us all the risks of gambling), I would guess that Clement will be the first baseman and will allow Jaramillo to play from time to time, since we now have an emergency catcher.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:25 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Because you guys just seem to swallow this stuff....hook, line and sinker. I would bet if NH told you all to go jump in the Allegheny, you'd do it. They just keep spewing it out and you guys keep sucking it in. You don't question anything, you just keep buying. It makes me wish I was selling you vaccuum cleaners.....I bet you'd buy anything I sold you, by telling you "it will work in 2012, if not then 2015".

"just how bad are Clement's knees?"

That's just a bonus.


Its not what NH has told me. In fact, I have yet to hear/read NH's thoughts. But respected people from respected, NEUTRAL sources, including MiLB and Baseball Prospectus have praised this trade from the Pirates point of view, as have fans of the other team.

Perhaps in your view of reality, they are just shills for Nutting? Oh, wait, Nutting would never pay for that, would he?


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:26 pm 
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bradf wrote:
If I were a betting man (and I was until Bertie showed us all the risks of gambling), I would guess that Clement will be the first baseman and will allow Jaramillo to play from time to time, since we now have an emergency catcher.


Does anyone know a definitive reason for why Clement was moved from behind the plate? Was it because of his knees, or because of bad defense? The reason would obviously help determine how likely he is to move back there.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Read Cameron's article. Found it informative and overall, knowledgable.

I think though, that he and others who do not watch Jack play on a day to day basis, miss what we see, and what I'm sure Jack Z(don't expect ME to try and spell that name!) see they are getting. When Cameron compares him to Everett, that gives it away.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:42 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Because you guys just seem to swallow this stuff....hook, line and sinker. I would bet if NH told you all to go jump in the Allegheny, you'd do it. They just keep spewing it out and you guys keep sucking it in. You don't question anything, you just keep buying. It makes me wish I was selling you vaccuum cleaners.....I bet you'd buy anything I sold you, by telling you "it will work in 2012, if not then 2015".

"just how bad are Clement's knees?"

That's just a bonus.


If there is anyone on this board who unthinkingly adheres to an uninformed opinion, it's you. Remember yesterday when several members of the board disproved your bullshit that the Pirates were pocketing $30 mil a year and had a lot more to spend on players? Oh, yeah, and we disproved you WITH A LINK THAT YOU PROVIDED. You don't read anything, you don't think, you just talk. Stop humiliating yourself, for the love of God.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:44 pm 
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jaybee24 wrote:
...Stop humiliating yourself, for the love of God.


... "For love of the GAME", jay.. "For love of the GAME". You gotta work the bad baseball movie references in when you can..

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:06 pm 
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BBF....much of what I have read says he is not a good defensive catcher. I don't know how the knees factor in. I also read into NH's comments about him "we see him as an outstanding offensive player" to mean he sucks defensiviely.


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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:07 pm 
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This is a very good move for the Pirates. Clement is going to be very good and I would like to see him playing first for the Pirates sometimes in august or september.
Cedeno is a good replacement for wilson for the time being.
The 3 pitchers we got have high upside and all are legitiimate prospects.

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 Post subject: Re: Jack to Mariners
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:09 pm 
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ZM...how about a soccer ball movie reference from Cast Away? "WILSON!!! I'm sorry, Wilson!"


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