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 Post subject: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:11 am 
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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:52 am 
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Well said. I don't agree with Smizik much, but he is spot on this time.

You know, until about a month ago I didn't really buy that stuff about the FO being more concerned about money than being competitive, buy my thinking has turned 180 degrees.

Swapping Sanchez and Wilson with no one in the system to replace them will only confirm what a lot of folks believe. It's about the money.

Oh, I'll still root for them, if they are going to play they might as well try to win, but only as a time filler between Steeler camp and the end of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:56 am 
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And I'm sure Gorzo still being at AAA has nothing to do with the fact he cant get past the 6th inning without throwing 100 plus pitches against AAA talent?

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:59 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
but only as a time filler between Steeler camp and the end of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.


Does this mean we can look forward to you not posting here in about a week or so?


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:07 pm 
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BBF wrote:
Steve1118 wrote:
but only as a time filler between Steeler camp and the end of the Stanley Cup Playoffs.


Does this mean we can look forward to you not posting here in about a week or so?


How great would that be...

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:16 pm 
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For me, too.

However, I would miss the amusement of watching all of you Kool Aid drinkers pat yourself on the back, talk theory, and try to impress each other with one's inside baseball knowledge. Winning and losing doesn't matter, as long as you can prove you know the batting average of some kid in high school in South Carolina, and can tout him as the next stud.

It is fun to watch.

I'll check in now and then, lets see, your timetable for competitiveness is now 2011..........probably by next spring you guys will have it pushed back to 2014......just keep pushing it back, and you can continue to explain and apologize for the lack of results.


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:18 pm 
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There are certain money-saving situations the Pirates have done in the past that are so infuriating I can't put into words (Ramirez to Cubs). Keeping Gorzo in AAA is common sense. Is it all about money...yes. What good would it be to have him in the Majors right now? The Pirates aren't making the playoffs and won't sniff .500. Why bring him up for 3 or 4 more starts that might cost the team an extra million or so down the road? He's still getting his work in down in Indianapolis.

Use common sense you "non-enablers". Before you type something to argue this...use common sense. Please, common sense.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:29 pm 
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How about some moral and ethical commitment to the folks buying the tickets, and even the corporate sponsors writing the checks? You need to put the players in the organization that will give you the best chance of winning each game, overall record be damned. You play one game at a time.

No one is buying a ticket or advertising now for 2011.....or 2014....or 2025. They are spending their money now, for today's game....not some date far in the future that may or may not be better. So, keeping Gorzo down in the minors costs them three or four games this year.....swapping Sanchez and Wilson costs them several more, and more next year while someone else tries to achieve a level close to their defense. Meanwhile, you just keep cashing the checks and telling everyone "we've got a five year plan", and you repeat it over and over and guess what? The "five year plan" never ends.

If you are going to take the folks' money, then you OWE them. You owe them your best effort....and it ain't happening.

Not the individual guys on the field, I am sure each one gives his best each day.....but the entire organization. It would be different if the enterprise was going broke, but it isn't. They've got a taxpayer funded stadium, one of the best. They've got a sales force that is great at booking concerts and fireworks shows, no doubt because it is cheaper than keeping some good ball players.

The culture of this organization stinks.


Last edited by Steve1118 on Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:30 pm 
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You are correct. Fans are turning away in droves because Tom Gorzellany isn't in Pittsburgh.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:34 pm 
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What fans? They are third from the bottom. They might be last by the end of Steeler camp.

And the ones that do, no matter how many, you OWE them. If your gonna take their money, the organization OWEs them their best.

But, it is the only way to get tickets to see Jo Dee Messina.


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:57 pm 
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I would stay away BECAUSE of Jo Dee Messina.


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
For me, too.

However, I would miss the amusement of watching all of you Kool Aid drinkers pat yourself on the back, talk theory, and try to impress each other with one's inside baseball knowledge. Winning and losing doesn't matter, as long as you can prove you know the batting average of some kid in high school in South Carolina, and can tout him as the next stud.

It is fun to watch.

I'll check in now and then, lets see, your timetable for competitiveness is now 2011..........probably by next spring you guys will have it pushed back to 2014......just keep pushing it back, and you can continue to explain and apologize for the lack of results.


This is easily the best post I have seen on this forum in months. This guy hit it right on the spot, and I feel the same as he does about some posters on this site.
And then they will bail out the next gm and praise his every move until finally at some point they will be right and get the feeling of genius...even though it was the 5th gm they have been sucking on.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:43 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
How about some moral and ethical commitment to the folks buying the tickets, and even the corporate sponsors writing the checks? You need to put the players in the organization that will give you the best chance of winning each game, overall record be damned. You play one game at a time.

No one is buying a ticket or advertising now for 2011.....or 2014....or 2025. They are spending their money now, for today's game....not some date far in the future that may or may not be better. So, keeping Gorzo down in the minors costs them three or four games this year.....swapping Sanchez and Wilson costs them several more, and more next year while someone else tries to achieve a level close to their defense. Meanwhile, you just keep cashing the checks and telling everyone "we've got a five year plan", and you repeat it over and over and guess what? The "five year plan" never ends.

If you are going to take the folks' money, then you OWE them. You owe them your best effort....and it ain't happening.

Not the individual guys on the field, I am sure each one gives his best each day.....but the entire organization. It would be different if the enterprise was going broke, but it isn't. They've got a taxpayer funded stadium, one of the best. They've got a sales force that is great at booking concerts and fireworks shows, no doubt because it is cheaper than keeping some good ball players.

The culture of this organization stinks.

What other businesses do you expect to lose money to entertain you?

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:46 pm 
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So Ryann, where will you "non back patters" go when NH's plan starts showing results?

If you think he is such an idiot, will you eat crow and praise him for a job well done later?


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:25 pm 
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Ryann wrote:
Steve1118 wrote:
For me, too.

However, I would miss the amusement of watching all of you Kool Aid drinkers pat yourself on the back, talk theory, and try to impress each other with one's inside baseball knowledge. Winning and losing doesn't matter, as long as you can prove you know the batting average of some kid in high school in South Carolina, and can tout him as the next stud.

It is fun to watch.

I'll check in now and then, lets see, your timetable for competitiveness is now 2011..........probably by next spring you guys will have it pushed back to 2014......just keep pushing it back, and you can continue to explain and apologize for the lack of results.


This is easily the best post I have seen on this forum in months. This guy hit it right on the spot, and I feel the same as he does about some posters on this site.
And then they will bail out the next gm and praise his every move until finally at some point they will be right and get the feeling of genius...even though it was the 5th gm they have been sucking on.


This is where you show your ignorance Ryann. To say that the posters here have "sucked on GM's" is talking out of your lower orifice. I know I was more than critical of the previous regimes as I'm sure most of the so-called Kool-Aid drinking apologists on here were as well. If you can't see the difference between what's going on now and what went on before then you truly are blind. And that goes for the guy who posted the thought originally that you're "sucking on", too.


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:40 pm 
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Again I am not saying all moves by this gm are wrong. I have said that I will not praise him as a genius until they start paying off. You guys however will praise anything he does good or bad.
I like the moves made by Nh this year, but I will stand by my claim that the Jason Bay trade did not need to happen and was a bad return.
However I like all these other moves he has done.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:45 am 
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Ryann wrote:
Again I am not saying all moves by this gm are wrong. I have said that I will not praise him as a genius until they start paying off. You guys however will praise anything he does good or bad.

And that's where you are full of crap. I'll start criticizing Huntingdon when he stops doing what I've been saying the Pirates GMs should be doing since Barry Bonds left in free agency. I don't like the moves because Huntingdon is making them, I like Huntingdon because he's doing exactly what I want him to do.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:51 am 
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sisyphus wrote:
And that's where you are full of crap. I'll start criticizing Huntingdon when he stops doing what I've been saying the Pirates GMs should be doing since Barry Bonds left in free agency. I don't like the moves because Huntingdon is making them, I like Huntingdon because he's doing exactly what I want him to do.


Well said. A lot of these new guys weren't here for all the DL bashing that took place, or the Cam Must Go movement (started by our own Eric Bowser) before that. People here have been preaching for these exact types of moves for years...of course we will praise them- so long as they are well-executed- when they occur. Your last sentence stated that much more eloquently than I could have.


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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:16 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Well said. I don't agree with Smizik much, but he is spot on this time.

You know, until about a month ago I didn't really buy that stuff about the FO being more concerned about money than being competitive, buy my thinking has turned 180 degrees.

Swapping Sanchez and Wilson with no one in the system to replace them will only confirm what a lot of folks believe. It's about the money.


???

You sure it's not about them being looming FA's with the possibility of getting nothing in return for them?

Or the fact that they're not playing offensively well?

Or that they're over 30, possibly declining and serve no purpose to the FUTURE of this franchise?

If it was about the $$$, the FO wouldn't have paid the bulk of their salaries for the year even AFTER trading them.

Its about rebuilding.

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 Post subject: Re: commitment to winning
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:20 am 
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Steve1118 wrote:
The culture of this organization stinks.


Yes, yes it does.

And it won't change if the FO keeps using same tactics: trying to hover around .500, signing FA's that don't 'click' with the team (Sveum, Randa, Sprague, Meares, Burnitz, Bell...), NOT building the farm system.

The culture will change with a drastic shift in protocol---I.E. COMPLETE REBUILDING OF THE TEAM.

Guess what NH is doing???

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