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 Post subject: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:43 am 
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I know there is a predicament with trading Sanchez and Wilson. Their market value is way less than their contract value. So, if the Pirates were to trade either of them to a team straight up, the prospect(s) would be mid-to-lower level. This would break the promise that the Pirates are making good "baseball moves" and moves not motivated by money.

But...

If the Pirates trade either of these two and take on some of the payroll in order to get a top-flight prospect I think people should start to see the light. I am one that hopes this happens. I think the Pirates are more than two years away and don't think either will be around long enough to see the Pirates win. Thus trading either/or for a prospect, hopefully a high-level prospect, seems to be the way to go.

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:54 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
If the Pirates trade either of these two and take on some of the payroll in order to get a top-flight prospect I think people should start to see the light. I am one that hopes this happens.


I am another who hopes this happens. I wouldn't view paying part of Freddy's contract as a bad business decision, I'd view it as investment in the future, assuming of course we get a legitimate prospect in return.


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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:00 am 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I know there is a predicament with trading Sanchez and Wilson. Their market value is way less than their contract value. So, if the Pirates were to trade either of them to a team straight up, the prospect(s) would be mid-to-lower level. This would break the promise that the Pirates are making good "baseball moves" and moves not motivated by money.

But...

If the Pirates trade either of these two and take on some of the payroll in order to get a top-flight prospect I think people should start to see the light. I am one that hopes this happens. I think the Pirates are more than two years away and don't think either will be around long enough to see the Pirates win. Thus trading either/or for a prospect, hopefully a high-level prospect, seems to be the way to go.

I agree with this 100%, IA. By my count, it looks like Duke, Maholm, Doumit and Vasquez (ugh) may be the only Pirates next year making significantly above the league minimum (barring free agent signings). They can certainly afford to sink some cost into paying a portion of the Sanchez option if it increases the quality of the prospects that come in return. I certainly hope this is part of the consideration when evaluating trade options.

However, I do think that there are complications in negotiations given the fact that the option has not yet vested. I read somewhere that the return for Sanchez may be in the form of PTBNLs where the list to choose from could be different depending on wether or not the the option vests. I'm not crazy about that idea.


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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:02 am 
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The apologists that post in here will agree with whatever happens. If they are not traded, they will say there was nobody to replace them or they were not offered enough. If they are traded, they'll say we were losing with you, we can lose without you too. These same people will be supporting them no matter what just like they always have.

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:20 am 
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IA...
As one of the "apologists" (I like to think of us as "fans"), I agree completely with your assessment. I hope that is why the statements coming out of the Pirate camp continue to insist that they will not be pushed into a trade by the deadline.

Hiowever, the baseball is going to be pretty ugly here for a while, considering the internal solutions to replacements for both. I hope we are using some of these trades to stockpile middle infeilders, as we did with the last trade that brought a pretty good shortstop prospect.

I think it's important that we have a target year for being able to contend....I don't want Alvarez and Cutch and Tabata to get here and have no middle infield defense.


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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:26 am 
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The Pirates have all of August to work something out too if they fail to trade them by Friday...

Most people think because of their high contracts they'll pass through the waivers...

A contender in mid August might need Jack or Freddy more than now and possibly gamble a higher prospect or multiple players for them in an attempt to make a playoff run...

Possibly, the shorter the time frame, there's a possibility of advertising Freddy as a 3rd baseman or SS, knowing he's only going to be playing there for 20 or so games...

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:08 pm 
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estrago wrote:
The apologists that post in here will agree with whatever happens. If they are not traded, they will say there was nobody to replace them or they were not offered enough. If they are traded, they'll say we were losing with you, we can lose without you too. These same people will be supporting them no matter what just like they always have.

You are right, and this is how it always happens. Any move the Pirates make is perfect in the eyes of an apoligist. That is why they still are not upset with 17 straight losing seasons because "We will be the Pirates of the 70's in 2011!!!" --Thought of an apoligist. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:08 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
I know there is a predicament with trading Sanchez and Wilson. Their market value is way less than their contract value. So, if the Pirates were to trade either of them to a team straight up, the prospect(s) would be mid-to-lower level. This would break the promise that the Pirates are making good "baseball moves" and moves not motivated by money.

But...

If the Pirates trade either of these two and take on some of the payroll in order to get a top-flight prospect I think people should start to see the light. I am one that hopes this happens. I think the Pirates are more than two years away and don't think either will be around long enough to see the Pirates win. Thus trading either/or for a prospect, hopefully a high-level prospect, seems to be the way to go.



DING DING DING!

;) :D ;)

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:14 pm 
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"I think it's important that we have a target year for being able to contend...."

They've had target years. Every year for the past seventeen.


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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:18 pm 
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MODS, please delete Steve post and this post. There is no need for him to hijack this thread too. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:19 pm 
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What's the matter? Does the truth bother you?

No room for dissenting opinion?


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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:23 pm 
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Check your messages Steve.

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 Post subject: Re: $$$ vs Prospects
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:31 pm 
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IA Pirate wrote:
Check your messages Steve.


Steve is headed to the principal's office. Awwwww you're in trouble.


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