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 Post subject: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:05 pm 
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I was thinking about the Tony Sanchez situation, and in a way, I think he has it even worse than Moskos when it comes to people second guessing the Pirates for taking him. Moskos will always be compared to Weiters. Sanchez will be compared to whoever is most successful from that draft class. Sanchez will always be compared to the field. If Kyle Gibson ends up being a star, then everyone will say "that's who we should have drafted" even if they were whining that we didn't draft Matzek when it all happened. Weiters could end up being Chad Hermanson, but there WILL be a star taken from Sanchez's draft.
So who should we have picked. You can only name 1 guy. And if Sanchez has a better career than that 1 guy, you don't get to complain about the draft. Ever. Not on this board, not on any board. Not at the game with your buddy. Honor system.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Borchering is the only one I was big on. Grant Green a close 2nd but I liked Borchering. I personally didn't care much for any of the arms we passed and didn't see a single one of them being worth what we paid Pedro or close to what we paid Pedro. Not a sure thing stud pitcher that I was ever sold on personally. I liked the route if bypassing the arms in the first round and then stockpiling on HS arms later on to sign above slot. A far better risk especially with our history in the first round.

Going for a position player, I loved Borchering's upside and potential but I don't mind Sanchez either, I think Tony is going to turn into a heck of a player. For a guy whose offense was getting slammed he put up almost identical numbers to matt Weiters as a junior in similar or same conferences both as juniors and Sanchez I believe was younger? He'll be alright. This draft is all about signing Cain and Von Rosenburg for me


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:39 pm 
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I was big on pitcher Aaron Crow and Colton Cain(but we did end up drafting him in a later round).


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:48 pm 
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I bet there will be silence from the peanut gallery. The ones who will complain the most will be the ones who won't lock themselves down with one guy. The Ryanns and estrango's of the board will "take the field" over one guy so they can complain about Sanchez.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:54 pm 
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I dont know much about the draft, but the organization was lacking talent in the lower levels at Catcher and took one of the best available this year...He seemed determined to be a better player losing weight and getting in shape over the offseason, and is playing pretty well...

So far so good...The Pirates had a plan in place and seems like they followed through with it...

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:58 pm 
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JimY

This is what some so called experts said

Quote:
In identifying the worst moves of the day, the group was unanimous in picking the Pirates, who took Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez with the No. 4 pick. Considering that word leaked out before the draft that the Pirates had already reached an agreement with Sanchez, it is clear this was a pick driven by dollars.

"I just think you have to ask yourself if you are Pittsburgh, do they really believe that Tony Sanchez is the fourth best player on the board?" said Manuel, who added that Sanchez is Yadier Molina at best and Kelly Shoppach at worst. "He's a quality kid, with tremendous makeup, but talent-wise I don't think he fits at No. 4. ... It's hard to see what the Pirates are doing. It's hard to see the plan. I'm not saying it's not there. I just don't see it."

Hyman said the Pirates should have learned their lesson from 2007, when they made an apparently financial decision to draft Daniel Moskos at No. 4 instead of Matt Wieters.

"It doesn't seem they learned from that," Hyman said. "They wanted to save some money. [Sanchez] is a solid big-leaguer, but at the fourth pick with guys like (Zack) Wheeler, Tyler Matzek, Aaron Crow and Jacob Turner on the board, to go with Tony Sanchez is puzzling to me."


http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/06/10/mlb- ... ho-missed/[/quote]

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:04 pm 
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I'll take Sanchez. He is doing well so far. I don't care what "experts" say, the whole draft is all pretty much a crap shoot anyway. I think this kid could be something special.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:05 pm 
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estrago wrote:
JimY

This is what some so called experts said

Quote:
In identifying the worst moves of the day, the group was unanimous in picking the Pirates, who took Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez with the No. 4 pick. Considering that word leaked out before the draft that the Pirates had already reached an agreement with Sanchez, it is clear this was a pick driven by dollars.

"I just think you have to ask yourself if you are Pittsburgh, do they really believe that Tony Sanchez is the fourth best player on the board?" said Manuel, who added that Sanchez is Yadier Molina at best and Kelly Shoppach at worst. "He's a quality kid, with tremendous makeup, but talent-wise I don't think he fits at No. 4. ... It's hard to see what the Pirates are doing. It's hard to see the plan. I'm not saying it's not there. I just don't see it."

Hyman said the Pirates should have learned their lesson from 2007, when they made an apparently financial decision to draft Daniel Moskos at No. 4 instead of Matt Wieters.

"It doesn't seem they learned from that," Hyman said. "They wanted to save some money. [Sanchez] is a solid big-leaguer, but at the fourth pick with guys like (Zack) Wheeler, Tyler Matzek, Aaron Crow and Jacob Turner on the board, to go with Tony Sanchez is puzzling to me."


http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/06/10/mlb- ... ho-missed/
[/quote]
Nice quote Estrago exactly why fans have a right to be pissed about the move.

I would have taken a matszek or a crow, but I think Sanchez has some potential.

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:19 pm 
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Estrogen... Who would you have taken?
Ry-guy....Which one would you have taken?


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Look at Sanchez numbers so far. I rest my case your honor. By not spending a super huge amount of money on a first round pick, they now have money to overslot these guys who they picked later in the draft and to use in their attempt to get Sano. I think it is a smart move, particularly when you look at the overall weakness of the draft this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:44 pm 
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I also don't mind the Sanchez pick. The guy I wanted though was Borchering. But he wasn't even close to a consensus pick. I think the only one who I will have the right to complain if he is a star is Borchering. He would have been my pick, but Tony Sanchez may let us afford ZVR, Cain, Stephenson, Cooper, Dodson. Can't complain about that.
I love that estrogen won't commit to one guy. He wants so badly to complain in 3 years that he can't just say "eh I'd have taken Gibson" or something of the like. He's waiting to see who works out to make his pick. And then we will hear about it every single day.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:50 pm 
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JimY wrote:
I love that estrogen won't commit to one guy. He wants so badly to complain in 3 years that he can't just say "eh I'd have taken Gibson" or something of the like. He's waiting to see who works out to make his pick. And then we will hear about it every single day.

I'm absolutely certain he couldn't name a single guy other than Sanchez from this draft class.

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:07 pm 
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The Pirates have been quite clear on what their strategy is and are following through with it. No one can know at this point in time if will pay off or not.

The fact that some unnamed expert did not like and could not understand the strategy on draft day is irrelevant.

This situation is totally different from the Moskos/Weiters debacle.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:52 pm 
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JimY and Az ... knock it off with the Nutting worship. So what if the Pirates signed their first round pick, and he is hitting the crap out of the ball in low A ball, and they also drafted and are looking to sign high level talent in later rounds, and spend the same amount of money in the process but wind up with 6 or 7 top-end players instead of 2 or 3?

So what? The Pirates should have spent $75,000 on the stereo system for their 1969 Nova. That would make them much better.


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:02 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
JimY and Az ... knock it off with the Nutting worship. So what if the Pirates signed their first round pick, and he is hitting the crap out of the ball in low A ball, and they also drafted and are looking to sign high level talent in later rounds, and spend the same amount of money in the process but wind up with 6 or 7 top-end players instead of 2 or 3?

So what? The Pirates should have spent $75,000 on the stereo system for their 1969 Nova. That would make them much better.

So what the Pirates have had 17 straight losing seasons? So what the Pirates have traded almost all of their top talent and still according to bucfan are "1969 Nova". So what the Pirates do not spend close to league average on payroll.

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:03 am 
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And P.S. - who also gives a shit that Tyler Matzek has not signed, and is very possibly going to pass on signing in this draft unless he gets top-3 money? And that as of right now, he is more likely to pitch for Oregon in 2010 than for a Colorado team? None of that matters, damn it!!


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:26 am 
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Ryann wrote:
So what the Pirates have had 17 straight losing seasons?

The team is likely to wind up at 17 after this season, but they are not there yet .... genius.

Ryann wrote:
So what the Pirates have traded almost all of their top talent and still according to bucfan are "1969 Nova".

Look at the AAA roster. The only talent on that team was acquired by Huntington, or is a former major league player trying to revive his career. There is no position player worth shit.

That is the circumstance that Huntington did not create. He is not to blame. He is trying to fix that, by acquiring a lot of talent.

And be clear on the following - having 1 or 2 or even 3 legitimate prospects is a disaster. That is because the failure rate of minor league talent is shockingly high. If a team has 3 prospects, one will be good, one mediocre, one not very good. That is the way it works.

That is why a team needs 20 top-end prospects ... guys like Alvarez, McCutchen, Lincoln, Tabata, Hernandez, Grossman, Miller, Milledge, D'Arnaud, Morton, Morris, Andy Laroche, Greg Hansen, Daniel McCutchen.

Hey, that is 15 right there. You know what 13 of them have in common?? They were obtained by Huntington, in less than two full seasons at the helm. Add on Jeff Locke, and perhaps Colton Cain, Tony Sanchez, and two others and guess what? 20 top-end players. Of those, 5 or 6 will be big-time players, franchise guys.

Another 5 or 6 will be good players - good enough that the position player will not be a guy you hate to see hit in close games, or pitchers that make you queasy when they take the hill. In short, a team that will compete 162 games per year.

Get it?


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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:34 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
And P.S. - who also gives a shit that Tyler Matzek has not signed, and is very possibly going to pass on signing in this draft unless he gets top-3 money? And that as of right now, he is more likely to pitch for Oregon in 2010 than for a Colorado team? None of that matters, damn it!!


I think we not should worry about signability. In fact, I suggest we take this strategy to the extreme next year. We can do this by drafting the '27 Yankees next year. No one could doubt that we were serious about winning, since we know that if they were living and young they would be the greatest team ever. The fact that we can't sign any of them (no one could) really shouldn't matter. Remember good teams are defined by who you select not if they play or sign :)

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:47 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
So what the Pirates have had 17 straight losing seasons?

The team is likely to wind up at 17 after this season, but they are not there yet .... genius.

Ryann wrote:
So what the Pirates have traded almost all of their top talent and still according to bucfan are "1969 Nova".

Look at the AAA roster. The only talent on that team was acquired by Huntington, or is a former major league player trying to revive his career. There is no position player worth shit.

That is the circumstance that Huntington did not create. He is not to blame. He is trying to fix that, by acquiring a lot of talent.

And be clear on the following - having 1 or 2 or even 3 legitimate prospects is a disaster. That is because the failure rate of minor league talent is shockingly high. If a team has 3 prospects, one will be good, one mediocre, one not very good. That is the way it works.

That is why a team needs 20 top-end prospects ... guys like Alvarez, McCutchen, Lincoln, Tabata, Hernandez, Grossman, Miller, Milledge, D'Arnaud, Morton, Morris, Andy Laroche, Greg Hansen, Daniel McCutchen.

Hey, that is 15 right there. You know what 13 of them have in common?? They were obtained by Huntington, in less than two full seasons at the helm. Add on Jeff Locke, and perhaps Colton Cain, Tony Sanchez, and two others and guess what? 20 top-end players. Of those, 5 or 6 will be big-time players, franchise guys.

Another 5 or 6 will be good players - good enough that the position player will not be a guy you hate to see hit in close games, or pitchers that make you queasy when they take the hill. In short, a team that will compete 162 games per year.

Get it?


I get it and I hope this works out. Also, I think I only count 14 in the list above. However, 15-18 are probably going to arrive by Fri via trades.

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 Post subject: Re: Who should we have drafted?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:21 am 
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Bucfan wrote:
Ryann wrote:
So what the Pirates have had 17 straight losing seasons?

The team is likely to wind up at 17 after this season, but they are not there yet .... genius.

Ryann wrote:
So what the Pirates have traded almost all of their top talent and still according to bucfan are "1969 Nova".

Look at the AAA roster. The only talent on that team was acquired by Huntington, or is a former major league player trying to revive his career. There is no position player worth shit.

That is the circumstance that Huntington did not create. He is not to blame. He is trying to fix that, by acquiring a lot of talent.

And be clear on the following - having 1 or 2 or even 3 legitimate prospects is a disaster. That is because the failure rate of minor league talent is shockingly high. If a team has 3 prospects, one will be good, one mediocre, one not very good. That is the way it works.

That is why a team needs 20 top-end prospects ... guys like Alvarez, McCutchen, Lincoln, Tabata, Hernandez, Grossman, Miller, Milledge, D'Arnaud, Morton, Morris, Andy Laroche, Greg Hansen, Daniel McCutchen.

Hey, that is 15 right there. You know what 13 of them have in common?? They were obtained by Huntington, in less than two full seasons at the helm. Add on Jeff Locke, and perhaps Colton Cain, Tony Sanchez, and two others and guess what? 20 top-end players. Of those, 5 or 6 will be big-time players, franchise guys.

Another 5 or 6 will be good players - good enough that the position player will not be a guy you hate to see hit in close games, or pitchers that make you queasy when they take the hill. In short, a team that will compete 162 games per year.

Get it?

Greg Hansen? Are you just making up names now?

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