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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:43 am 
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I do not know how to feel about this move. Although they are both great players off the field, I wonder how much longer they will be productive. I think signing freddy would be a good move, and signing Jack could hurt the future of this team. I would see a signing of Jack as just to hold someone at short before the Pirates get a prospect who plays shortstop.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:05 pm 
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It would probably be a couple years for Friday, D'Arnaud, or Mercer (in house).


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Pirates play hard ball with infielders
By Bob Smizik | Friday 7:55 a.m.

Is the Pirates offer of contract extensions to shortstop Jack Wilson and second baseman Freddy Sanchez a legitimate attempt to keep two key players or a thinly veiled public relations ploy that has no real teeth?

Hard to say without the details of the contacts being available but when it comes to finances, it’s a wise course of action to be skeptical -- highly skeptical -- of the intentions of the Pirates.
The facts are these:

Wilson is in the final year of a contract that is paying him $7.4 million. The club has a 2010 option to pay him $8.4 million, which won’t happen. If the Pirates reject the option, there is a $500,000 buyout. Sanchez is in the final year of a contract that is paying him $6.25 million. He can guarantee an $8 million option for next season with 600 plate appearances, which is well within his reach. There is a $600,000 buyout of the Sanchez contract.

The Pirates will attempt to trade the players if contacts cannot be worked out at least a few days in advance of the July 31 non-waiver trading deadline.

By offering multi-year contracts, the Pirates hope to lower the amount the players will receive in 2010 in exchange for the security of several more years of guaranteed pay.

What the Pirates are willing to pay is hard to say but on their side is the fact neither player is in high demand on the trade market. In fact, the failure to get significant interest from other teams is what might have prompted this course of action. Both Wilson and Sanchez, as well as their agents, have to know if they don’t sign with the Pirates they’ll be on the open market after the season with no guarantee of long-term deals.

So what the players have to evaluate is this: Would it be better to sign with the Pirates for, say, three years at, say, $9 million or test free agency and possibly come up short of that?

If they reject the Pirates offers, the players will be taking a gamble but not necessarily a high-stakes one. Both are set for life financially as the result of their previous contracts. Wilson has earned about $30 million in his career and Sanchez about $14 million.

Nor is either facing the end of his career if they reject the Pirates offer. Even if there are not teams willing to offer long-term deals, both would surely be able to land jobs next season, just possibly not for the amount they would receive from their Pirates contract.

As much as the players have professed a desire to stay with the Pirates, they have to know they face more years of losing, a prospect that they certainly do not cherish. It is well known Wilson was excited about the prospect of playing for a contender when he was close to being dealt to the Detroit Tigers at the 2007 trading deadline.

This is a wise course of action by the Pirates. They’ve forced the decision on the players. Accept what probably will be a low-ball offer or go elsewhere.

With so little time to make a deal, the guess here is the players will reject the Pirates offer and test free agency.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:02 pm 
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A bunch of people have been saying that signing Freddy/Jack to a three year deal increases their trade value, and that's not necessarily true. It was true for the case of McLouth because he was playing well and is four years younger than either Jack or Freddy. Atlanta basically traded to lock up Nate's best years.

Freddy is an injury liability at this point, and as others have pointed out, any extension would have to give him more than the $8.5 million he's due next year. If his production slips next year, we're going to be trying to trade a 32 year old, injury prone second baseman with declining numbers and a potentially huge contract. You don't want that kind of contract on your books when you're trying to build a team. (Just ask the Blue Jays how the Vernon Wells thing is going.) If the Pirates wait until next year, they'll have a lot more options. They can trade him or re-sign him, or they can let him go as a free agent if injuries hamper him again or his numbers decline significantly.

I think a deal with Jack wouldn't be as potentially damaging as one with Freddy, especially given the rumored lack of talent at SS coming through the draft in the near future. Hopefully we could get a reasonable deal with him done for two to three years and at least have an excellent defensive SS for 2011 and 2012.

These are the two biggest contracts with which the Pirates are dealing right now. NH has to get this right, or he risks hurting the organization financially for a few years.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:13 pm 
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The part I like best is that both players have stated their desire to stay together IN PITTSBURGH. Tells me they may take a hometown discount to get that. I am not saying they will play for cheap but the defense they provide, providing they stay healthy, cannot be discounted.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
The Bucs needed to do this.....they needed badly a good PR move for what is left of their fan base. They certainly do not hurt themselves by doing this, and this was sorely needed.


You don't do this because it's a good PR move. You do it because it's a good baseball move.

And I love how the Smizik notion that this could be a PR move to protect themselves if they let them go at the end of the season. This front office has indicated numerous times with their actions that they don't give a crap what the public thinks about what their doing. Their only goal is to build a winner.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:52 pm 
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estrago wrote:
What the Pirates are willing to pay is hard to say but on their side is the fact neither player is in high demand on the trade market. In fact, the failure to get significant interest from other teams is what might have prompted this course of action. Both Wilson and Sanchez, as well as their agents, have to know if they don’t sign with the Pirates they’ll be on the open market after the season with no guarantee of long-term deals.

This is probably the smartest thing Smizik has said in years. This is exactly why I think NH is offering Sanchez and Wilson extensions: no team is offering squat for them on the trade market. The correct move regarding these two is to trade them, but teams are probably not offering much for either because of their collective impression that the Pirates will feel compelled to trade both players before the deadline, and thus a team can probably eek out a lopsided deal for either player. The fact that NH is now offering them contract extensions tells other teams that the Bucs are not desperate to unload these players, and thus acquiring either Sanchez or Wilson will require a better offer than what has already been given.

I personally think it is unwise to extend either player for much longer than 2 years, but I think that having them around for a little bit longer as stop-gaps could be beneficial to the team. Ultimately, though, I want both players traded for good packages of prospects. The Pirates' goal should be to build for the future, and extending either player tends to deviate from that goal.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Well, when you consider the fact that they have no one on the horizon to replace them, it is a good baseball move.

But, it goes deeper than that. The Bucs NEED a PR move, and this puts the ball in Freddie and Jack's court. If they want to stay in Pittsburgh, now's there chance. We'll see.

If the Bucs have had a history of good baseball moves, your statement would hold more water. But, they don't. They are on their way to 100 losses this year, and despite all of the theories, have shown almost no improvement from last year. Today's commentary by the Channel 4 crew on http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com pretty much spells out what everyone else sees, with the exception of the four or five guys on this board who get a kick out of displaying their "inside baseball" knowledge and theory that "2011 will be the year".

You know, I hope you guys are right, but it has yet to be proven. It's all theory. But, you guys don't seem to get that you can't win in the major leagues on the cheap....you've got to spend some money. And, it appears to be obvious that they have a self-imposed cap. And, before you get ready to post another "don't watch" response rather than to address the obvious, I will tell you I will watch, because, I am a Bucco fan. But facts is facts.

I think you guys are whistling past the graveyard. There has to be a paradigm shift before they begin winning, and that starts with opening up the wallet.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
The Bucs NEED a PR move.


The only PR move they need is to win more games. If they have 100 bad PR moves the next two years and are in the playoff race in 2010, then who cares. Would you really rather 100 good PR moves and they still don't win? MY point is PR moves don't win baseball games. Talent does.

And if you are talking about a history of baseball moves, whose history are you talking about? The Pirates have 5 World Championships with their moves. If you are talking about the current front office, they have only been here two years and one full season. Anyone will tell you, that ain't much history.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:39 pm 
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The whole situtation seems very fluid to me. I mean, somebody has to play 2nd base and shortstop. Right now, there really is nobody to plug in to those positions. But I think that if, for instance, NH pulls a trade tomorrow for someone like Young Eric Young (I just like typing that), then everything changes. In that way, the extensions talk may actually be a backup plan in case such a deal cannot be executed.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:45 pm 
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I could go either way on this deal, but the fact is that both of them CAN be under contract already for 2010, so this is all about 2011. Are the chances that Jack stays healthy, on the field, doesn't lose a step on defense, and continues to hit like he did this year TWO YEARS FROM NOW that much better than the chance that Brian Friday develops into an everyday shortstop by that point? I'd call it a push, which is why I can go either way on the deal. That's not saying I think Friday is a sure bet, just that I also don't think Jack continuing to play at this level is a sure bet either.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Well, when you consider the fact that they have no one on the horizon to replace them, it is a good baseball move.

But, it goes deeper than that. The Bucs NEED a PR move, and this puts the ball in Freddie and Jack's court. If they want to stay in Pittsburgh, now's there chance. We'll see.

If the Bucs have had a history of good baseball moves, your statement would hold more water. But, they don't. They are on their way to 100 losses this year, and despite all of the theories, have shown almost no improvement from last year. Today's commentary by the Channel 4 crew on http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com pretty much spells out what everyone else sees, with the exception of the four or five guys on this board who get a kick out of displaying their "inside baseball" knowledge and theory that "2011 will be the year".

You know, I hope you guys are right, but it has yet to be proven. It's all theory. But, you guys don't seem to get that you can't win in the major leagues on the cheap....you've got to spend some money. And, it appears to be obvious that they have a self-imposed cap. And, before you get ready to post another "don't watch" response rather than to address the obvious, I will tell you I will watch, because, I am a Bucco fan. But facts is facts.

I think you guys are whistling past the graveyard. There has to be a paradigm shift before they begin winning, and that starts with opening up the wallet.


Steve -
While I certainly respect your right to continue pressing the "spend, spend, spend" button, you have been invited time and time and time again to offer something of substance to back up your theory. To date, I recall seeing nothing from you of any substance beyond "spend." If I'm mistaken, point me to your response and I'll apologize.

Further, the "Pirates don't spend" crowd has yet to adequately explain - at least to me - why it does not expect management to spend money when it thinks that a winner is on the horizon. Again, I recall market contracts given over a 12 month period of time to Kris Benson, Brian Giles, Kevin Young, Jason Kendall, Aramis Ramirez and Pat Meares the last time someone in the management office thought that the team could contend for the playoffs. No, Nutting was not in charge at that time; McClatchy was . . . but, if you are going to argue 17 straight years of losing, you can't turn a blind eye to that situation.

And, frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of the thinly veiled jabs directed towards others. You claim that some get "a kick" out of demonstrating their "inside baseball knowledge" that 2011 will be the year. Given my posts over the past couple of weeks, I'm taking that comment as directed towards me - at least in part.

So . . . let me try this again. If you look at the transactions made by NH, you will see that he is trying to build a lineup not for 2009. Not even so much for next year (ie; Alvarez won't be up next year; Tabata won't be up next year). Those two players would be targeted for the starting lineup in 2011. IF they progress as anticipated, those two would insert some pop into the lineup that is glaringly absent right now. By making this "claim," I'm not coming close to trying to demonstrate "inside baseball knowledge." I'm simply exercising common sense. Alvarez was drafted with the hope that he's on the fast track. So far, so good. Tabata was traded for because he is also on the fast track. Milledge was traded for because he is either ready or close to being ready. That means that NH has acquired - by trade - anticipated starters at 3B, LF and RF. He drafted the anticipated starter at 1B. The starting CF came up through the system. He inherited the starting C but, by 2011, the backup will almost certainly be the #1 draft pick this year. That leaves 2B and SS to be determined. He is also stockpiling arms.

Again, this is far from "inside knowledge." This is obvious from looking at the moves that are taking place.

The Bucs don't need a PR move. Signing Jason Kendall at $10M per year was a PR move. That was not a smart baseball move. In fact, it was damn stupid.

So . . . given what is lined up in the pipeline and given the obvious plan in place by management . . . why exactly should this team go out and spend $80M over 5 years for a first rate free agent? And, if you really think that the team need a paradigm shift, that it needs to make this kind of splash, please give us a name, a position or something beyond "they need to spend." At least those that have argued to build up the farm system first have possessed the intestinal fortitude to provide reasons for their opinions. I'm missing that from you, estrango, Ryann and others.

Until I get something of substance, I can't give your opinions any credence and I'm left to conclude that it is nothing more than a talking point piece of fluff.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:02 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
Well, when you consider the fact that they have no one on the horizon to replace them, it is a good baseball move.

But, it goes deeper than that. The Bucs NEED a PR move, and this puts the ball in Freddie and Jack's court. If they want to stay in Pittsburgh, now's there chance. We'll see.

Dave Littlefield was the king of PR moves, and look where it got us. PR moves do not help the team move forward. Freddy and Jack are never going to be a part of the next contending Pirates team. They should be flipped for prospects that might be a part of that team.

Steve1118 wrote:
If the Bucs have had a history of good baseball moves, your statement would hold more water. But, they don't. They are on their way to 100 losses this year, and despite all of the theories, have shown almost no improvement from last year. Today's commentary by the Channel 4 crew on http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com pretty much spells out what everyone else sees, with the exception of the four or five guys on this board who get a kick out of displaying their "inside baseball" knowledge and theory that "2011 will be the year".

Once again, you're playing the guilt-by-association card. This is not the Dave Littlefield regime: whatever happened in the past has no bearing on what's happening now. And just because you don't understand the idea of building from within does not make you right to dismiss it. Anti-intellectualism does not create winning franchises.

Steve1118 wrote:
You know, I hope you guys are right, but it has yet to be proven. It's all theory. But, you guys don't seem to get that you can't win in the major leagues on the cheap....you've got to spend some money. And, it appears to be obvious that they have a self-imposed cap. And, before you get ready to post another "don't watch" response rather than to address the obvious, I will tell you I will watch, because, I am a Bucco fan. But facts is facts.

I think you guys are whistling past the graveyard. There has to be a paradigm shift before they begin winning, and that starts with opening up the wallet.

Can't win on the cheap? Tell that to the Florida Marlins and Tampa Bay Rays.

What is it about building from within that you people can’t understand? It’s not as if this is a new phenomenon in the sports arena of Pittsburgh. After years of mediocrity, the Penguins built a championship team through the draft, and supplemented the team through free agency. The Steelers are renowned throughout the NFL for continued excellence by building through the draft and dropping players when they become too expensive/ineffective. When was the last time the Steelers rocked the sports world with a huge free agent signing?

Honestly, if you want a winning Pittsburgh Pirates, why would you deny them the opportunity to follow the models of the Steelers and Penguins, as well as many other major league baseball organizations like the Braves, Marlins, Rays, Twins, and Brewers?

And by the way, the Pirates ARE spending money; they are just spending it where it is most prudent to spent it: the draft and international scouting. Spending money on the current major league squad would be a giant waste, even if we were to bring in the equivalent of Jason Bay. The only way this team is going to get out of the doldrums is to fix the farm system and acquire prospects that have the chance of being something special. Spending money on the major league roster of a decrepit team gets you the 2005 Mariners.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:15 pm 
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I don't have any axe to grind, personally, with any of you. But, you guys can pretty much figure out who I'm talking about. It's the same half dozen or so all the time. If I have have anything personally to say to anyone, I'll do it. A lot of you are into procedures, and don't really worry about results. If anyone takes that as a jab, consider it not "thinly veiled". If the shoe fits, wear it.

That being said, you indicate that spending more is not the answer, that "building" the organization is. Well, my response that is that the organization has been "building" for the past sixteen years, and the result is the same. You indicate your theory of "building for the future" works, but no one has yet to see any results. In fact, quite the contrary.

So, you indicate my theory has no "substance". Well, where is the "substance" in yours? It ain't working. Period. Bottom Line. For example, Moss, "the stud" everyone on here was touting at the time of the trade, has hit 3 homers in 220 at bats. Karstens is OK, but certainly does not make up for what they have lost. And, on and on, and on. They are in the cellar, and it doesn't appear to be changing soon. So, "substance" should wind up in results. It isn't. Face it.

You guys point out to the "different regimes", and the Marlins, and the Rays, and whatever else (even the Steelers and Penquins, which DO work under a salary cap) you can pull out of thin air to support your theory. Well, this isn't Tampa Bay, and it isn't Florida. It isn't Minnesota, and it isn't Cleveland, either. It's Pittsburgh, and seventeen straight years of losing records is tiresome. Beyond tiresome. It's beyond time.

You guys can take this as personally as you want. It isn't meant that way, but you guys seem to have a problem disputing the fact that your way isn't working, so you come up with other things to talk about.


Last edited by Steve1118 on Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:16 pm 
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Are you kidding me?

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:18 pm 
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38-50


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:51 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
38-50


Way to completely ignore everything that everyone has been saying to you. That's taking a page from Meathead Debate 101...just yell "Scoreboard," pump your fist, and claim to have won the argument.


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:52 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:

That being said, you indicate that spending more is not the answer, that "building" the organization is. Well, my response that is that the organization has been "building" for the past sixteen years, and the result is the same. You indicate your theory of "building for the future" works, but no one has yet to see any results. In fact, quite the contrary.

So, you indicate my theory has no "substance". Well, where is the "substance" in yours? It ain't working. Period. Bottom Line. For example, Moss, "the stud" everyone on here was touting at the time of the trade, has hit 3 homers in 220 at bats. Karstens is OK, but certainly does not make up for what they have lost. And, on and on, and on. They are in the cellar, and it doesn't appear to be changing soon. So, "substance" should wind up in results. It isn't. Face it.



I want to comment on the two paragraphs above.

First, while the Pirates have been building for the past 16/17 years, IMO this regime is the first one with a legitimate plan towards that building. They have committed to that plan, regardless of the public or media backlash that results from it. They are moving players, popular players, at their peak value (see Nady, McLouth, Marte, Morgan and Burnett) for a bevy of prospects with potential. The reason you get multiple prospects is because odds are 1 out of every 3 or 4 will fail (even on good deals). This transitions to comments on the next paragraph...

Using Moss and Karstens as your examples of trade failure is short sighted. First off, both were considered throw-ins for their respective deals. Ohlendorf and Tabata should be looked at as the key piece of the Nady/Marte deal. LaRoche and Morris were the key players in the Bay deal. Honestly, the Bay deal is looking poorer and poorer in hindsight, but health has influenced that result (see Hansen, Morris and to some extent Moss with his microfracture surgery this past offseason).

Steve, I truly can understand your frustration with where this organization is at. Honestly, me and some of the other 'apologists' may be eating crow in the very near future. I would like to think that is not the case. The future, for this organization looks brighter to me now than anytime since Bonds, Bonilla, Smiley et al were making their way through the organization and Drabek, Van Slyke, Bell and others were being brought in through trades. The comparisons are similar between these two teams (mid-to-late 80's team vs now). Both were mired in pathetic stretches, both were involved in trading away their best players for prospects (Tony Pena, Rich Rhoden and others) and both were being murdered in the media and public for doing so. Like that time period, I think the future is bright. You have your right to disagree. I am sure, that if you are a fan (which I don't doubt), you hope I am right in this situation (despite your reservations).


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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:08 pm 
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Steve1118 wrote:
I don't have any axe to grind, personally, with any of you. But, you guys can pretty much figure out who I'm talking about. It's the same half dozen or so all the time. If I have have anything personally to say to anyone, I'll do it. A lot of you are into procedures, and don't really worry about results. If anyone takes that as a jab, consider it not "thinly veiled". If the shoe fits, wear it.

You don't get results without concerning yourself with procedure. Major league franchises don't turn themselves around by magic. There has to be a plan in place, and it needs to be executed properly. You get results by executing the proper procedure.

Steve1118 wrote:
That being said, you indicate that spending more is not the answer, that "building" the organization is. Well, my response that is that the organization has been "building" for the past sixteen years, and the result is the same. You indicate your theory of "building for the future" works, but no one has yet to see any results. In fact, quite the contrary.

That's because this team has not undergone a rebuilding plan in over a decade. Just because prior regimes billed their actions as "rebuilding" does not mean that said actions actually WERE part of an honest rebuilding plan. Very little of what Littefield and Bonifay did was characteristic of rebuilding, regardless of what they may have said publicly. Actions speak louder than words.

Steve1118 wrote:
So, you indicate my theory has no "substance". Well, where is the "substance" in yours? It ain't working. Period. Bottom Line. For example, Moss, "the stud" everyone on here was touting at the time of the trade, has hit 3 homers in 220 at bats. Karstens is OK, but certainly does not make up for what they have lost. And, on and on, and on. They are in the cellar, and it doesn't appear to be changing soon. So, "substance" should wind up in results. It isn't. Face it.

Stop lying. No one touted Moss as a stud. He was viewed as a 4th outfielder.

The "substance" is found in the minors. See Jeff Locke, Gorkys Hernandez, Lastings Milledge, Bryan Morris, Jose Tabata Pedro Alvarez, Quentin Miller, Robbie Grossman, and on and on and on.

Oh, and by the way, what have we lost? An average outfielder who has a future as a part of a platoon in Nady, an admittedly excellent outfielder in Bay who has shown every intention of entering the free agent market (which means we would have eventually lost him had we retained him past 2008), and a LOOGY in Marte. None of the above players were going to stick around or be of much use past 2009.

And lastly, you still have not provided any substance to your argument. If your best argument is cutting down the other side, then it seems that you lack ideas, and your position lacks merit.

Steve1118 wrote:
You guys point out to the "different regimes", and the Marlins, and the Rays, and whatever else (even the Steelers and Penquins, which DO work under a salary cap) you can pull out of thin air to support your theory. Well, this isn't Tampa Bay, and it isn't Florida. It isn't Minnesota, and it isn't Cleveland, either. It's Pittsburgh, and seventeen straight years of losing records is tiresome. Beyond tiresome. It's beyond time.

So offer a solution, Steve. So far you haven't done so. "Spending money" is not a solution until you can explain, in at least some detail, HOW that money is to be spent. All you've done is bitched and moaned about how you want to see a winner before you die. Well, we're tired of hearing you whine. Stop acting like a petulant child. Either put up or shut up.

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 Post subject: Re: Pirates offer Sanchez/Wilson contract extensions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 5:13 pm 
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Well, Steve, why don't you tell us how the Pirates did it back in the 80's to build the last successful baseball teams we saw in Pittsburgh. Was it by spending, as you propose is the solution?

Back in 1985, your best players are Tony Pena, Johnny Ray, Bill Madlock, Marvell Wynne, and George Hendrick. You have 4 MLB quality SP - Rick Rhoden, Jose DeLeon, Rick Reuschel, and Bob Walk. How do you build a winner? Syd immediately traded away every player of value for prospects and young players to complement his weak minor league system (only top prospects he inherited were John Smiley, Jose Lind). Here are the results of the trades -

Tony Pena (easily the most popular AS Bucco) - Andy Van Slyke and Mike LaValliere
Bill Madlock (batting champ) - Sid Bream and RJ Reynolds
Rick Rhoden (easily our best SP) - Doug Drabek
Jose DeLeon - Bobby Bonilla
Johnny Ray (ROY runner up, near all-star) - prospect bust
Marvell Wynne - Bob Patterson
George Hendrick - Bob Kipper
Rick Reuschel - Jeff Robinson, later traded for Don Slaught

He then decided to overhaul the draft scouting and in back to back years picked Barry Bonds and Jeff King in round #1. By 1988 he assembled the core of a 3 time championship club -

C- LaValliere, Slaught
1B- Bream, later King
2B- Lind
SS- Bell (traded for as a prospect in 1989)
3B- Bonilla
RF- Reynolds
CF- VanSlyke
LF- Bonds

SP- Drabek, Smiley, Walk
RP- Patterson, Kipper, Belinda

Almost all of this was built by blowing up the current MLB team for good prospects and better drafting. That has to sound familiar, right?


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