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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:02 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
Jeremy wrote:

Then how has soccer gained in popularity?


Because Bud Selig is not involved????

Seriously, I'm not sure your point.

The biggest reason for soccer's growth, such as it is... which really is not much, is Mother's active involvement, IMO. Rigthly or wrongly, soccer is considered a "safer" sport, especially for very young kids. An added bonus is at the younger ages it is much easier to integrate the sexes on a team. No stereotypes to overcome like BB, or FB.

By the time these kids reach Jr High or HS level, they tend to drift off to BB, FB, or other sports.

ZM

I played soccer, and for me, the push for soccer over football was largely from my father. Yeah, moms care for the safety of their children, but a father who used to play HS and college football and suffered a debilitating injury as a result is much more likely to push his sons into a sport that does not carry the same amount of known risk of injury.

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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:03 pm 
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Everything said here is true. Passing costs on to allow players who can't afford has been done for years. Baseball costs that haven't been mentioned are travel costs, tournament fees which can be as high as $300 dollars per player for a weekend, private lessons,all of which go on year round out here. I will spend between 5000 and 6000 dollars in travel fees just this spring and summer for my diver son's travel and meet fees this season. That doesn't even figure in monthly coaching fees of $175 dollars or miscellaneous meets and travel costs throughout the year. My wife and I figure that we have spent between $60,000 and $70,000 in his dive career. Maybe now you can understand why we are pissed when some of these college coaches lowball us or beat around the bush when it comes to financial aid. In fact we are calling THE Ohio State University and cancel his visit because the guy was so sketchy about giving us any number concerning scholarship money. He told me on the phone that 3 factors would determine how much diving money No. 2 could get. His first factor he related to us was how much we could pay. I can tell him about my taking a pay cut and the state of my wifes 401K. Then he said he wanted to see him dive first. Well if you are that interested, get off your ass and come see him. There were 4 schools this past weekend in Portland who did. Hawaii, LSU, Alabama and Miami. The third factor was how bad Sam wanted to dive at THE Ohio State University. After No. 2 found out the guy is a yeller and screamer and there ain't much fun factor, that clinched the deal. THE Ohio State University can kiss MY ass. :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Interestingly enough, soccer and it's predominate club system, is one of the most cut throat sports of them all. You don't play club and travel, you go know where. I learned this first hand from my cousin who's daughter went through it all and is now playing at NAU. Unfortunately, she has suffered two broken feet, one in each of the last 2 years and has yet to play a college match.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:22 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Interestingly enough, soccer and it's predominate club system, is one of the most cut throat sports of them all. You don't play club and travel, you go know where. I learned this first hand from my cousin who's daughter went through it all and is now playing at NAU. Unfortunately, she has suffered two broken feet, one in each of the last 2 years and has yet to play a college match.

Well, I can assure you that my father did not push me to play soccer because he thought I'd be the next David Beckham. He just wanted me to do something. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:25 pm 
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Oh I understand Wilton. You expose your kids to many different things and see what sticks to the wall. Follow the path the kid wants to take and nurture. I have never forced my kids to do anything, never. But I will support them to the best of my ability in the path that they choose. I compare what is available to kids now to what was available when I was a kid in the 60's and I am envious.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:39 pm 
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We probably should be making distinction between "real young" and "older" play.

I am a hockey parent, and can relate well to Az's monetary plight. Really well.

Youngest is a baseball guy though, and the costs are not anywhere near hockey, but are considerably more than baseketball or even soccer at this point.

BTW, for younger baseball players in the 10-14, Little League range, I am now highly recommending the Little League Baseball Camp in Williamsport, at the World Series Complex.

$395 gets your kid a week of overnight camp with all meals and instruction. Lots of games, and baseball, too. Great learning experience for No. 3. Learned a lot, and grew up a bit, too. Got to play on the "Big Stage" for the "All Star" game and was wide-eyed.

ZM

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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:58 pm 
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That's a great deal ZM. Really great.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:20 pm 
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Substitute2 wrote:
Interesting article. Having been a teacher for 39 years, and a dad who unwillingly coached little league, I can tell you that the absence of fathers in the black community has certainly had an impact on many areas of what most consider normal child rearing experiences. Never thought about the need for adult males in the organization and teaching of baseball to young kids. I'm sure that it is a factor in the lower number of black kids who participate in baseball. Lack of existing fields probably also detracts from participation.

Still, the most important reason why all kids have lost interest is the lousy job of marketing done by MLB and they are paying the price today of fewer players and less public interest in general. Once again look to Selig who continues to be the worst leader baseball has ever had.


I'm no fan of Selig, but you do realize that MLB set attendance records yet again last year?


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:25 pm 
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ZelieMike wrote:
We probably should be making distinction between "real young" and "older" play.

I am a hockey parent, and can relate well to Az's monetary plight. Really well.

Youngest is a baseball guy though, and the costs are not anywhere near hockey, but are considerably more than baseketball or even soccer at this point.

BTW, for younger baseball players in the 10-14, Little League range, I am now highly recommending the Little League Baseball Camp in Williamsport, at the World Series Complex.

$395 gets your kid a week of overnight camp with all meals and instruction. Lots of games, and baseball, too. Great learning experience for No. 3. Learned a lot, and grew up a bit, too. Got to play on the "Big Stage" for the "All Star" game and was wide-eyed.

ZM


That's a good price. I just paid $350 for a three day lacrosse camp for my daughter..and it was only a day camp.

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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:30 pm 
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I played soccer too in high school...I played football, baseball, soccer, and wrestled in jr high, but...knowing wrestling was my best sport I played soccer in high school for the running...

Being a heavyweight, I wanted to build my endurance levels...4 years of soccer, 3 letters...because of my size and strength I was utilized as a goon. I was to wear down the other team's guys, either their physical guy or their top scorer...

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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:34 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
After No. 2 found out the guy is a yeller and screamer and there ain't much fun factor, that clinched the deal. THE Ohio State University can kiss MY ass. :twisted:

Pretty amazing tale about the OSU dive coach. The "Old Yeller" factor was a reason daughter was not going to attend Stanford.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Interesting you mention the Stanford coach. A very close friend of No. 2's dives for the Stanford Club Divers and she told me she is leaning towards going there. That said, it turns out that she and No. 2 are going to LSU on the same weekend. Good move by the LSU coach. IF they weren't long distance they would as they say "be an item". LSU coach is a great guy. Pretty funny too. We may do some bass fishing in Georgia while at nationals.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
Interesting you mention the Stanford coach. A very close friend of No. 2's dives for the Stanford Club Divers and she told me she is leaning towards going there.

Does the Stanford coach handle the club team?


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:06 pm 
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Good question.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:09 pm 
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No. 2 just told me that his the type of coach that tries to get inside your head. Direct quote.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Az Bucco fan wrote:
No. 2 just told me that his the type of coach that tries to get inside your head. Direct quote.

Well, that would work out great if he were coaching me, since my head is completely empty. My daughter, on the other hand, has no empty space in her cranium. I believe that your No. 2 falls in the latter category.


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:07 pm 
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I find this thread great. MY kids are adults out there doing their thing. But I remember the issues around youth sports. Trust me they haven't changed much in 20 years. Biggest difference is cost has increased because of camps, travel teams, buying your own stuff, and with hockey- paying for ice time.

The discussion is great because it shows me how much all of you care about your kids. It doesn't really matter if they excell in the long run. What matters is that you are their to support them and that will stand huge in their lives and leave you the greatest satisfaction.

Whatever decisions are made about this sport or that, about going to camp or not. All of it is about family and it just doesn't get any better then that.

So, just keep on keepen on

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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Trust me, No. 2 has some spare space up there. Academically, he has had to bust his butt. Up until 4th grade, we didn't know if he would ever be able to spell or read. He had a great teacher that year and something just clicked in but he is not a natural student. He had to work hard to get his SAT's up to 1030/1460. He did better on the ACT getting 23. He took them on successive weeks in June and was stressed to the max. Northwestern wanted him to take the ACT again saying they needed a 25. We told them 23 would be it and they could do whatever they could to get him in on their end or take a seat. If No. 1 had taken anything serious in high school he would be at a D I school but alas it was not to be. After a spring meltdown baseball and school wise, having to do summer school to get eligible seems to have had some effect. He is in a tough summer school class at 7 AM and told me yesterday that it is the hardest class ever and that anything else would be a breeze. We shall see. :roll: :!:


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:19 pm 
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How many of the "men" are of Spanish decent? I would speculate that only a good few handfuls of these guys are "white." Derek Jeter is just as "White" as "Black." All in all who cares...


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 Post subject: Re: Where have all the black men gone?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:33 am 
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Son has a pretty good GPA (3.65), with a number of AP courses. His SAT scores are good in math, average in English, but fall short in the writing section.

I have suggested that he take the ACT. Daugther advises that the ACT, based upon the scoring, tends to push the scores together, so that the "problem" areas are scored more highly.

I am lobbying son to take the ACT and take some lessons from his old man regarding the writing test. Son is not receptive to the idea of taking instruction from dad. We'll see.


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